OP has a coach, this seems more of a intellectual question, a very good question.
I don’t think UL SHOWING is a requirement,
training? yes, I need someone who has a record of getting horses to where I want to go, all things being equal. PSG/I1/GP may just not be relevant to 99% of us.
Its hard to break the mold as the only one. JMHO.
What annoys me is not that some trainers don’t have much of a record, haven’t train horses up to GP or have thousands of clients performing well in the upper level classes. 
What is most important in a trainer’s cv is his integrity.
You know why the trainers in your area don’t have scores below 3rd; it is known and they « proved » to your horsey community that they have valid reasons. They can train from the lower levels and they have scores at the higher levels. That’s how they represent themselves. They are honest and showing their skills. They might not be a good fit for all, but at least, you know they are somehow competent.
What annoys me are those who don’t represent themselves with honesty. They like to kind of twist the reality. That’s when you look at their scores and you need to evaluate carefully their answers.
A competent 3rd level rider, who doesn’t pretend to be a GP rider could build a nice training business because there is a lot of students out there who’d need that expertise. There really is no shame in being a good 3rd level trainer but somehow, some feel the need to embelish their resume with whatever they can fit in… It looks dumb and doesn’t make them better.
So what annoys me are the trainers who pretend to be something else than they are… That is why I want some proof of competency : show scores/achievements, training of horses from lower to upper level, students scores… I just can’t stand being lied to my face.
And for some, it’s not even that they are not competent!!! I know of a few who are quite successfull with lower level riders/horses… but the bullshit they say on the side?!? No thanks.
As an example : Pretending to be a GP trainer (both jumping and dressage) when you’ve never trained a single horse up the level; yeah he brought some really low level to 1rst/second but usually the horse he rides have some sort of training/show background and I’ve never witness him bringing them up a level or 2 up.
He rode once or twice at GP with a made horse and had scores in the high 50. His best personal scores were at 3rd. But he knows how to talk bullshit so he always have clients… new clients… His lessons aren’t that bad per say, he knows what to say… but he really lack the expertise and to me, after watching a clinic, he was just a fraud pretending to be a GP trainer. He paid his way to get his german trainer certificate on made horses.
Yeah, I m not really thinking about the maestro fraud types, that’s a whole other thread
And I’m not thinking about coaches who only show at the higher levels on multiple horses. That would make sense, especially if the client developed the horse at lower levels.
I’m thinking about legit respected totally conventional high dollar competition coaches. When you scrutinize their scores you see that they were showing mostly first level, maybe up to third. Then they are on a totally new horse showing Grand Prix. And that is the only Grand Prix horse on their record.
Yes, that puts them at the head of the pack locally where it’s rare to have more than 3 or 4 Grand Prix competitors at any given show. It’s just less depth of experience than I would have expected.
Now I am deducing all this from Equine Canada online show scores. I don’t know how any of these trainers sees their own career trajectory or competition life or client base or business model. I wouldn’t say any of them are being misleading. And they are well regarded.
It’s just less depth or breadth of experience than I expected, and less than COTHers were recommending in a competition coach. And I was wondering if that was in fact typical of smaller centers.
Yes to what’s been said.
Short and sweet, ask the trainer who they currently ride with. To me, it’s absolutely essential that trainers still strive to increase their own education. So either they have regularly scheduled rides with someone else or clinic with others.
I think the one reasonable expectation of all coaches/trainers/instructors is that they not lie.
Beyond that, what you look for should vary depending on goals and location. If you want to be a top international competitor, you need to relocate to where the top international competitors are, and ride with them so you can learn.
My trainer will eventually retire (right now he says in about 10 years, so I have a lot of time to figure it out if he keeps riding that long - into his mid-60s), so to some extent I think about what I will want in my long in the future next trainer.
Hopefully by then I will have made more than one GP horse myself. I won’t theoretically need someone to ride for me so much, but will likely always have straightness problems because of nerve damage. I literally can’t feel my left seatbone, and so I will need to ride with someone who is VERY good at seeing and pointing out crookedness. I can quickly get out of whack. By then, that may mean riding with a friend who has worked up the levels regularly rather than going to a new trainer, we’ll see. But regular eyes on me to counter the crookedness will always be important. At that time, I may be happy just taking regular clinic rides with trainers who come to the area - as our community seems to be growing, I don’t see why they would be fewer later than there are now, but that can always happen of course.
If it were as things are right now, I would want a trainer who can ride my horses, who does not insist on the low and overbent garbage, and has trained a horse him or herself through FEI. However, showing isn’t a high priority to me - so if that trainer has trained the GP skills (verifiably) on a horse who can’t get through a GP test, that’s ok to me. That’s the case with my trainer, whose stallion may end up a GP horse, but has had multiple turnout injuries affecting his ability to develop the stamina to make it through a GP test. He’s far exceeded the expectations around him from when he was young, with less than ideal conformation and energy level (he’s VERY mellow), and scores have gone up with training. I’m interested in the training and development, more than showing, so seeing that my trainer was able to so improve a horse is a huge plus to me.
We actually have multiple trainers who have trained horses up the levels in our general area - more if you include Phoenix area as well. There are also some who have shown horses others trained. The development of horses is the part I care about, but if a trainer got the actual GP scores on a borrowed horse but also has trained horses up the levels, I wouldn’t think less of that trainer. (And in fact one of my favorites had that exact situation.)
So basically, it just depends. We all have different situations and want different things.
:lol::lol::lol:
Because you obviously think this is so funny there is another solution, although I don’t really think any of you would really do it… You prefer to stay in your comfort zone…
This guy who is giving these amazing courses is retiring in a little more then a year. And I assume he will be bored then and miss his teaching… So if you all you really like to find out how it is in Germany you could organize a clinic with him But I know already there are going to be about 2 million reasons why this is not possible…
Dang, I knew I should have taken German as my third language for the PhD! They talked me into Spanish because I d already aced the French translation.
I wanted to see if Heidegger made any more sense in the original. But now that bad decision is clearly all that’s standing between going Prix St George with my pissy Paint mare. Definitely a word of warning for all the teens posting threads about skipping college to go pro.
I guess I ll have to stay with French dressage with maybe a side trip to Spain.
Or just continue with the European clinicians series here.
see… I knew it…
Yup, I totally agree with you. If I’d buckled down and got “fluency” in translating German back in grad school I could train in Germany and become an FEI rider. Silly me.
And I gave up on Heidegger too. I decided that whenever I traced the genealogy of a line of critical theory back to Heidegger I could just accept the being as such of Heidegger and go no further.
Lazy? Or just strategic about the discourses I engage in? Or a bit of both?
well one part of the German education is that everybody learns English so there is no need to be sarcastic…
Deep apologies for sounding sarcastic.
well apologies accepted… I really like the idea behind your thread. I lived in a state with no dressage trainers close to me for 20 years and because of my family situation (3 little kids) I rode without any trainer for 20 years. I preferred that to paying trainers I did not think were able enough. I watched a lot of videos instead. I think it was ok, but I never improved in those 20 years. I stayed on the same level I was before… So I know how difficult it can be…
Keep in mind EC only shows rated Canadian shows, so a trainer that went down south or to Europe to train would have gaps, as would someone who showed at shows that do not need EC passports as they went up the levels (such as breed shows, or Bronze or lower). There is also a pretty good rider around here, who just doesn’t bother showing at the middle levels. She gets them out when young to introduce them to the atmosphere, then doesn’t see the point until she is at the “fun” levels. Her horses do well, but her show record would look odd. Just saying that I wouldn’t immediately write someone off because their show record isn’t continuous.
That’s a good point. But the folks I was looking at only had one upper level horse ever.
I’ll try to address your actual question, because I think it’s a good one. I do think it might be a bit unrealistic to expect that if you are in what sounds like a dressage backwater (in your words, “where most riders top out at first level” and “schooling shows are almost entirely first level or below”). Where would such a coach learn their skills in that area, or why would they choose to settle there having learned them elsewhere? Some people might want to be a big fish in a small pond, but many will prefer the opportunities that come with having other upper-level folks around.
That’s not to say that Wellington (or similar hotbeds) are the only place to expect trainers with a strong showing CV. I live in Maryland, where there is a pretty good dressage scene and there are plenty of amateurs in the middle and upper levels. Schooling shows regularly have classes at 2nd and 3rd, often higher. I did a schooling show at 4th level earlier this year and I think there were 5 other 4th level tests. Not all (or even many) of the local trainers here go to Florida for the winter. Though some of them have gotten their medals on made horses, many of them have shown horses up through the levels (their own and clients’). Of course, we have our share of charlatans too! I recognize that I’m lucky to be in an area like this.
That said, I do agree with others that spotty show results may not be a bad sign, for example if the trainer just prefers not to spend money showing until the horse is at a higher level. It can be a red flag though, especially if you find that the horse showed with someone else for years before that trainer, and the trainer is letting people believe they brought it along. Like someone else said, the trainer doesn’t have to be superstar but at the very least they should be honest.
I also agree that many lower-level riders don’t need a trainer with GP bona fides to advance, but if everyone is stuck at 1st that’s not a good sign.
These posts are exactly why people have a hard time with you here, Manni. Please consider a kinder and more respectful way to communicate with us.
I dislike this separation of lower and upper. I think it does a dis-service to us.
It’s so important to have a solid understanding how to build collection when in the lower levels
I think schoolmasters are fantastic and I have zero problem with people getting scores on schoolmasters. However, a lot of these trainers then immediately start advertising themselves as “USDF Gold medalist who has brought multiple horses through FEI”. While technically it is accurate that they have showed these horses through FEI, they didn’t do all the work to get there. I like to see where a trainer got miles on a schoolmaster and is now using those experiences to bring horses up through the levels.
I suppose we are in a backwater compared to a lot of American centers. Canada doesn’t field a strong National dressage team compared to our excellent jumpers, and virtually all the top contenders work out of Eastern Canada.
Where we are as soon as you get out of city limits it’s rodeo country
We would however be the strongest center for English riding within 2000 miles. But compared to what folks are reporting about the depth of skill and competition even in smaller American cities, perhaps “backwater” is indeed the obvious answer.
It’s good to get a reality check like that.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
