That’s an interesting story!
I would have to agree, thinking about it now. One cannot lump an entire personality into a single trait. “Quiet” is all relative to begin with. But to equate that with “no natural work ethic”, or to think that a horse has to be hot to want to work all the time, or whatever other correlations are too often made, isn’t fair.
I’m not sure where anyone said that a baby needs to be “hot” or crazy. I don’t think that “not quiet” = “hot.” I think that a really smart horse isn’t “dead acting” or “hot acting” AS A GENERAL RULE! There are, of course, exceptions. But generally speaking I think a smart foal is reactive and CAN have a tendency to be a trouble maker. There’s still a difference between “notices things but doesn’t overreact” and “doesn’t notice things.”
My very personal opinion is that I want a baby that reacts to things (doesn’t have to be in a “boil over” type way at all), and is quick to figure out new things. These babies are often inquisitive and the type that get into new things and trouble.
As a side note, all of my GP horses have been on the “dead” side of the spectrum when it comes to energy under saddle. But all of them were the “wicked type” as babies. And they’ve all been exceedingly intelligent. That doesn’t mean that other types can’t make it to the GP ring, just that in my personal experience that intelligence streak in conjunction with a serious work ethic is what made my horses capable of cantering around the big courses. Along those lines, every exceptional horse I’ve owned was too smart to act completely mellow AND too smart to act like a nut. But again, there are always exceptions when it comes to horses!
IMO and IME it is easier to hone the natural quick response than try to create it. Buying that is no different to me than buying any other attribute I can to make the job easier -rhythm, relaxation, impulsion, etc.
I don’t like crazy horses either and I certainly don’t think that is an attribute essential to upper level potential. But neither is numb quiet. There is a reason that horses are labeled as an ammy ride or a pro ride and its not about them being bad or crazy, it’s about who they are innately. Nothing wrong with that, and thank god they come in all different types of packaging because we are all different too and have different wants.
No one has said a horse needs to be crazy, difficult or dangerous to make it to gp. But they do need to be sensitive, they do need very fast reactions and they are generally clever. And those traits, in general, are not found in quiet horses. Of course there is going to be the occasional horse who is a saint who makes gp and can be trained by an amateur. But those horses usually lack the brilliance to be competitive beyond local level and rarely even make national level. Thats why I spent so long looking at young horses when searching for the one to take over from my PSG with piaffe and 1 time changes horse. Finding the right temperament plus better than average paces is very hard and when they are babies it is also a lot of guesswork but choosing a reactive, alert youngster who also listens when asked to do something is every bit as important, probably even more important, that rhythm and cadence and a good quality walk. Everyone knows that it is important to breed for good conformation and paces. It is just as important as a rider to pick horses with the right sort of attitude.
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with quiet horses. There are more people out there looking for a beautiful, quiet horse than there are people looking for their next GP horse. I am saying that quiet horses are far less likely to reach GP than reactive, sharp horses. I’m also not saying that reactive horses are the same as horses who boil over. There’s a difference. Although I’d take a horse who have a tendency to boil over at 4 in preference to a quiet horse of the same age if I was looking for a potential GP horse if the tense horse had the right attitude in other ways. It is always easier to modulate energy than to create it when riding. If the horse was 7 or 8 and still tense and stressy then I’d pass on them too. By that age they should have learned how to channel their energy in a constructive manner.
Please don’t equate quiet with slow or stupid. Many quiet horses are thinkers and very smart. And can be fabulously reactive to the aids without being idiots. Hot does not equal brainless any more than quiet does not equal dull.
What is needed is a quick reaction followed by a quicker return to relaxation in muscle groups so that an aid, such as flying changes every stride, can be repeated without the horse “boiling over.”
For all that seem to think that not again is saying deadheads are what is needed for getting to GP, read the sentence above until you get it. Any horse that gives a quick reaction is not dead, but one that gives a quick reaction followed by a quick return to relaxation will be able to work harmoniously. As ever in these internet conversations, it isn’t all or nothing,black or white, right or wrong, but more likely shades of gray.
Now I am off to the oral surgeon for some rather icky work. Carry on. I’ll be out of commission for a while. :winkgrin:
As this thread has gone on it made me think about our mares life since birth and the experiences she had. One thing that may be different than some horses is she has lived with children in her life since the moment of her birth. So in some ways she has always been expected to be a solid citizen. Its just the way it is.
I have no idea if it has had an impact, but she has had to deal with a lot of noise, toys getting thrown in the air and bicycles.
Add splashing and jumping in the pool, neighbors on four wheelers and all the crazy things kids add to the mix. And while she has had moments they are always short lived.
My friend also has children and is a breeder. She has a three year old stallion and he is very quiet as well. Just a cool drink of water. He recently was started under saddle and took it all in stride. The trainer said she wished all of them were like him. Come to think of it, all of her youngster are very easy going.
So maybe some is pedigree and some is the environment after all.
That’s what I was trying to say 
It all goes back to what someone’s definition of “quiet” is. My TB gelding was nicely quiet, but also very nicely reactive with a great work ethic. He didn’t have the ability to go far, but he always tried his heart out.
[QUOTE=not again;5044783]
Please don’t equate quiet with slow or stupid. Many quiet horses are thinkers and very smart. And can be fabulously reactive to the aids without being idiots. Hot does not equal brainless any more than quiet does not equal dull.[/QUOTE]
This describes my gelding very well. At coming three he was unusually quiet–he didn’t spook immediately at a scary object but thought about it and went to investigate instead. It turns out that he’s very confident. He’s also an alpha in the herd. At five, this has turned into being argumentative at times.
I am so laughing about this thread tonight. I’m afraid I’m on the side of “quiet does not equal neurologic”. That said, I have a very quiet 2 YO filly, quiet to the point where one could get paranoid about “is everything ok with her”. So, I go out this morning to put her in the trailer to go over to my trainer’s, 5 minutes up the road, and I think, hum didn’t have time yesterday to do anything with her, maybe I should longe her for a couple of minutes. Walk out to the ring, her tail goes straight up in the air and she gallops wildly and bucks a couple of times (very big effort for her) for 5 minutes. Head goes down and she trots in to me as if to say, Well that was fun and I’m over it, so let’s go.
What was that thought about too quiet :lol::lol:: 95% quiet, 5% loony.
OH, Yikes, I do ponies. I have two three year old larges right now by one of my stallions, so homegrown. They are both so quiet that from day one it was just a pleasure to start them. Am I worried about how quiet they are? Of course not. I am THRILLED. No lunge. Hop on and go. Can it get better than that? And, no, they are not in any way challenged.
[QUOTE=not again;5044783]
Please don’t equate quiet with slow or stupid. Many quiet horses are thinkers and very smart. And can be fabulously reactive to the aids without being idiots. Hot does not equal brainless any more than quiet does not equal dull.[/QUOTE]
In complete agreement with this statement. I have a home bred and raised 3 year old who could walk over a land mine and not blink. However, I would never underestimate his intelligence. Because of his thriftiness, I have to baton down every gate and fence or else he will escape and his curiosity is astonishing. He appears to be one of the most intelligent horses I have at the moment but he is also the most laid back horses I have ever owned. He will never, never, make it even near GP but that is just fine with me. His heart and temperament make him worth his weight in gold.
[QUOTE=stolensilver;5043716]
I stick by what I said before. Quiet horses don’t get to GP. Heck the statistics are that only 1 in 100 horses that make it to 4th level get to GP and the majority of dressage horses don’t even reach 2nd level. A GP horse is special and rare. They have to work incredibly hard and keep trying even when it hurts (think going to the gym and working when you’d rather stop). Most quiet horses just don’t have the spark it takes to work that hard.[/QUOTE]
I also trained/showed to FEI and I would of agreed with you in MOST cases. I like hot, sensitive horses since I want a GO button in them. However, I rode 2 very, very quiet, lazy GP horses… both absolutely transformed after their warm up under the certain riders: passage, piaffe, pirouettes were amazing! Ability to sit under, ability to bounce in passage several feet up/down is incredible (supper hard to sit, but amazing). Very light to the aids on higher movements, but yet so lazy of the leg on the lower level movements.
So there are always exceptions to the rule.
For me the question would be is the horse quiet and assertive? Or dull and withdrawn? Those are two very, very different “quiet”
over-reactive horse that is afraid of his own shadow also will have difficulties overcoming positive tension needed in so many FEI movements.
Obviously quiet does not equal neurological, it amazes me sometimes how people refuse to read for comprehension and prefer to just read something and react. IMO every horse has to be evaluated as an individual. My point, once again, are there ARE issues that sometimes have symptoms that cause a horse to be unusually quiet.
I too had an unusually quiet youngster that was actually very very smart and brave. She was a 2 year old OTTB I restarted as a 3 year old, I could take her anywhere and do anything. I took her trail riding all over the regional parks, to horse shows, cross country schooling, she was never hot, never spooky, never scared of anything and brave, brave, brave. She was so quiet you knew that when she finally decided not to do something it was not going to be pretty. As a 4 year old she decided she hated dressage and waited for the moment where she could launch me. I still don’t know exactly what happened, I came to laying on the ground with her standing there flipping me off. She was sold to a kid who took her through training level eventing, but never lost her ability to say “no” and mean it.
So yes, sometimes ultra quiet can mean just a little too smart…
Oh God, and before anyone jumps all over me again, I’m not saying quiet youngsters are EVIL either!!! LOL. Plenty of brave, quiet youngsters don’t buck you off 
[QUOTE=Sugarbrook;5046397]
OH, Yikes, I do ponies. I have two three year old larges right now by one of my stallions, so homegrown. They are both so quiet that from day one it was just a pleasure to start them. Am I worried about how quiet they are? Of course not. I am THRILLED. No lunge. Hop on and go. Can it get better than that? And, no, they are not in any way challenged.[/QUOTE]
I would certainly hope that pony babies were just like this
Would someone please define “quiet?”
I have a whole line of horses that are very quiet on the ground. One of my mares in particular and almost 100% of her offspring are so calm and obedient that I could hand them to anyone, anywhere, including non-horse people and children. However, under saddle they are all sensitive, quick off the leg, forward, very eager to please, focused, yet not spooky. Are they quiet? IMO they are. BUT, they are also sensitive in a good way. They are the essence of what I try to breed.
So, that is what I think of when I say a “quiet” horse can have great potential for GP. I have a feeling that many of us here have very different definitions. Yes?
Mary Lou you’re right, red hot and dangerous for one person is lazy and slow off the aids to another. We can all only speak from our own experience and talk about the horses we have seen and ridden.
It is true that the overwhelming majority of horses get calmer and quieter as they get older. DressageArt the quiet GP horses you have seen may very well have been quick and sharp when they were 2 or 3. I’m sure all of us can list lots of top GP horses who have a reputation for being a handful. My list of sharp top horses is much longer than my list of easy ones.
To go back to MaryLou’s point again it is not entirely unusual for a horse to have good ground manners yet be very forward under saddle. That is pretty much the ideal horse. Out of interest what level have horses from that line competed to MaryLou?
Yes, most of FEI horses are not quiet and not easy to ride. FEI schoolmasters are hard to find.
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