Thanks for all of the input! I am for sure going to get her eyes tested and have her tested for Lyme, and I will take her off of the MSM. I know pain isn’t an issue-I have checked the bridle, I bought a new saddle just for her that fits perfectly, and I have a really great vet who just came out, again, last week to make sure it isn’t a pain issue. I didn’t think about lyme or eyes at the time, but I will have him come back out to test!
We do a ton of groundwork, and she does very well with it. I have been restarting her very slowly with the help of a trainer who works with a ton of ottbs. So it may just be the way she is, but I do want to rule out all medical first! Thanks for all of the tips and suggestions, I will look into all of these!
I just want to suggest reading the books The Happy Horse and Climbing Mount Impossible by Tania Kindersley. They are about her journey with a reactive TB-who she now puts children on. She follows Warwick Schiller. You might not get any concrete things to do to solve your problem, but I think the books might encourage you. They’ll also echo some of the ideas in this thread.
@CupcakeTough and @Kyrabee if you don’t mind sharing, could I ask more about how the MSM affected your horses? How much MSM were you giving them? What brand of supplement or what other ingredients were in it? How quickly did you notice a change in your horse and were there any specific symptoms of a reaction you would look for?
I have a somewhat spooky Arab/TB cross. A few months ago I started him on the Smartpak SmartTendon, mostly for the collagen, but it has a small amount MSM in it and I wasn’t aware that that could cause problems. I haven’t noticed any behavioral changes with it, in fact my winter horse has actually been a little better this year so far knock on wood. Do you think I’m in the clear for a reaction or did you find your horses initially tolerated it and then had problems with it?
@IrishBirdcatcher I wouldn’t worry if it is a small amount that’s a part of a blend. I was feeding straight MSM. My horse became much more reactive. He’s always been a “hot” horse, but one that loves to work and really enjoys his work. On MSM he was hugely distracted, and spooky to the extreme.
IrishBirdcatcher…I was also feeding straight MSM. I think 1 scoop was 10gm…what the label said to feed for maintenance. My totally normally steady eddy mare just got very anxious and spooky. I started her myself. Always eager to work and level headed until the MSM and she wasn’t. After one particularly contentious trail ride where she wouldn’t walk and was so hyped up, I took her off of it. Gave her a couple weeks and tried it again to find the annoying behavior back. So that was it for her. No more MSM and she was fine.
How in the world is this horse dumping you if she is doing well with groundwork? You might need a new trainer - this one is not doing well if your horse is spooking so bad she is dumping you.
Some OTTBs or horses in general for that much are thin skinned and don’t like being brushed or you have to use a very soft brush. My 23 OTTB gelding is very much like that, its not a lack of anything nutritional, he’s just very sensitive. Its good that you are addressing any and everything medical that could be the problem, one last thing to check is to see if she has any reproductive issues like ovarian cysts. However, any potential medical issue aside, it may be that your horse is just very green. She may be 8 but she hasn’t been a riding horse, only a race horse and then a horse that had a year off. You are starting from the beginning with this horse as if she were just being broke. This may be a long term project to get her to a place that you want her to be. It’s good you are willing to work with a trainer, be sure to find one that is has experience transitioning OTTBs from track to riding.
Do you have experience breaking horses to ride previously? What sort of “ground work” are you doing? Can you lunge this horse walk, trot, canter, whoa, in each direction? (no side reins, no other restrictive equipment). Is she obedient, balanced, relaxed and supple as she is lunging in each direction at all gaits, keeping her inside ear on you most of the time? Does she take each lead on the lunge at the canter with equal dexterity? Does she keep her focus on you while lunging? Have you long lined (ground driven) her at walk and trot? Figure 8s and serpentines on the long lines? In the arena and outside, around your barn area? Can you long line her past or over things (ground poles) that she might consider to be “scary”? Until you can do these things with her successfully, quietly, obediently, and without drama, she is not ready to ride. It doesn’t matter that she has been ridden before, during her racing career, because that is quite different. If she was a blinker case on the track, she may have never got over things, never developed the full relationship she needs with a rider, in order to be a riding horse. The blinkers are a crutch, they can either help you get her over her anxieties, or as a racehorse be a crutch that is just never removed. A blinker horse may be frightened of a number of different things, from things around her that she does not have the confidence in herself to face nor the confidence in her rider to keep her safe, to being frightened of the sight of a rider on her back. Attempt to ride her without her blinkers and without first addressing her fears and phobias, and all hell can break loose (as perhaps you have found out?). She may never have been ridden without blinkers before. If she is one of those who has a phobia about seeing a rider on her back (they can handle the “feel” of the rider, just not the sight), it may be an issue that your current coach or trainer has not dealt with before.
It is not “just the way she is”. It is not normal for horses to be unridable. There is an issue. The detective work needs to be done to find out the root of the issue. The question is, can the issue be identified and fixed by her current trainers? Maybe yes, maybe no.
If your vet can not find any physical or health issues that are the root of the problem, re-break her. Find out where the holes are in her previous training, or issues that have not been already successfully resolved BEFORE getting on her back and attempting to ride her. If you or the trainers/coaches you are working with are not experienced with breaking horses from scratch, then you will need to find someone who is experienced with getting into a horse’s brain and doing some rewiring in there in a positive manner. If she has phobias about being ridden and lack of confidence, she needs the right approach to overcome these problems- understanding of her situation and direction.
Something that I do out on the trail with all my horses, spooky or not, is I never stop talking to them.
I carry on full ride continuous conversations = horse knows I’m still there, still with them. I can’t imagine riding in silence.
Voice plays a big part for me, coupled with forward + contact = confidence. Plus I never look at or dwell on the spooky thing. I look away, opposite direction which encourages my horse to look where I’m looking and we cruise right on by the spooky thing as if it isn’t there.
@Kyrabee and @CupcakeTough Thanks for the info. The amount of supplement I am giving has about 1gm I think, but I still might try to find something else without it. It’s interesting the the horse dose was 10gm… online says the human dose is 6gm daily.
I do the same. I think speaking to them conveys confidence and reinforcement that they are doing the correct behavior. The side effect is timing. The best trainers have an innate sense of timing to reward desired behavior that most of us just don’t. I believe the constant talking substitutes the absence of reinforcement for timing. We stop talking immediately when things are going poorly. Such as a spook or breaking gait. We don’t have to think reward and react. Merely react.
In my riding career, four horses have gone from spooky, nervous to calm, steady trail horses. Maybe it’s something else but seems to work for me.
Well talking, singing or even humming requires the rider to breathe and sometimes a tense/spooky horse can make us tense [ and either hold our breath or breathe les deeply ] even if we’re not aware of it, and IMO they feel that… speaking/singing/humming requires breathing, which leads to relaxation for us and them.
Posting in case someone is in a similar situation! My horse had Lyme! She was treated with Doxy, and is now 100% a different horse. She is so much more relaxed, no longer tense/nervous/spooky, and she seems generally happier. She lets me brush AND curry her now without any attitude- she even fell asleep in the cross ties today while I was grooming her, which has never happened. She is also moving so much better, the stiffness is gone!
If you are dealing with a horse that has similar symptoms, I highly recommend testing for Lyme!
Yes to all these great suggestions. I had/§have (he’s great now!!) one just like her. Key for me was spending enough TIME with him that he trusted me and just wanted to chill. He also had a nasty pullback in cross ties habit which mimicked his spook under saddle. I taught him he could only move his feet where I wanted them. If he moved, I moved the feet back. Hours of this. Also cured his walking off during mounting.
So to summarize whT worked: Ditch the MSM and either go super low starch or no grain. Try a week of ulcer treatment. Make sure she has turnout. GROUND WORK until she’s “with” you, just hang with her. KEEP HER BUSY, put some ground poles down and teach basic dresssage moves. Get her tired. Take a friend out on the trail, get some steep hills if you can so she channels energy.
