Spruce Meadows - the horse who gave his all

[Belowthesalt]

@skydy

Wine, Xanax and muscle relaxants are not prohibited under the rules by the FEI or USEF. They are, none of them, considered performance enhancing or a masking agent for other drugs.

I did have a friend who never went into her Ammy Owner Hunter classes without having had her valium and wine. She decided to take up dressage…

[BLBGP]

@vagabondrider

It isn’t the same person. Eye Candy Jumpers is Erica Hatfield, not Michele Marano.

Got it…edited my post since I was confused. So how is Eye Candy involved?

[MHM]

@BLBGP

“We didn’t know the horse had been entered in the derby, and we wouldn’t have wanted him to go in the derby had we known,” Michele said. “I think Andy made a bad judgment call; I think he made a mistake, and he’s apologized to us for it. But I don’t think social media is the place to go about having this discussion.”

If it weren’t for the discussion on social media, this episode would have gone completely under the radar, other than for the relatively small number of people who saw it happen. Clearly the rider and the main owners would not have given it a second thought.

[sixteenhands]

@no sniveling

I’m wondering if the reluctance of the officials to intervene could have been due to an incident on 7 July, apparently there was quite a commotion when AK was DQ’ed from another class- quoted (sic) from the eye candy page:

“Have you ever seen a sadder horse? This is poor baby Squirt Gun being humiliated—ejected and eliminated from the derby! He was eliminated after he hit and knocked down a jump. The jump crew asked Andy to move so they could put back up the jump, but by moving Andy “broke the rules” and was kicked off the course! We were lectured about not knowing the rules and in response I blew my top, used excessive volume and profanity and accused the entire Spruce Meadows staff of being hypocrites as their own ground crew is obviously unaware of rules the exhibitors are supposed to know like the back of their hands! Look at what you did to Squirt! Look at the dejection! Only eight years old and he probably woulda come out on only those four faults! No water jump or liverpool ever scared this guy! I also became angry at Andy for smiling in this photo, but he said he had to be strong for Squirt.”

How did Ms. EyeCandy Jumper yell and swear at officials and not receive a warning?

[vxf111]

I can recall interviews with him in the past where he essentially said that his business model was to use up every ounce of a horse until it was totally worn out (said in a nice way, but that’s the gist of it). So when a friend told me there was a FB thread going on about him… I could guess exactly what it was about.

What I’d like to know is where the stewards were. It’s their JOB to police what happens at the show/in the ring and at some point this clearly crossed from a “bad round” to a horse welfare concern. Better to err on the side of safety/animal welfare.

[atl_hunter]

@Belowthesalt

I did have a friend who never went into her Ammy Owner Hunter classes without having had her valium and wine. She decided to take of dressage…

I have a friend who rides fine at home. Then she gets to shows and insists on wine and Xanax. She,therefore, responds slowly and misses her distances, making her fears worse. She’d be much better off riding without them!

[atl_hunter]

@skydy

Wine, Xanax and muscle relaxants are not prohibited under the rules by the FEI or USEF. They are, none of them, considered performance enhancing or a masking agent for other drugs.

“Methocarbamol (Robaxin®) - maximum 24 hour dose 5.0grams/1000lb horse remains the same, however must NOT be administered within 12 hours prior to competition.”

So, your horse can’t get a muscle relaxant 12 hours prior to competition but you can pop one with a glass of wine before you get on… It’s not prohibited, but it is RESTRICTED. Unlike human meds…

[skydy]

@atl_hunter

“Methocarbamol (Robaxin®) - maximum 24 hour dose 5.0grams/1000lb horse remains the same, however must NOT be administered within 12 hours prior to competition.”

So, your horse can’t get a muscle relaxant 12 hours prior to competition but you can pop one with a glass of wine before you get on… It’s not prohibited, but it is RESTRICTED. Unlike human meds…

We were referring to the use of Xanax, wine, and muscle relaxers in athletes, not horses.

[Jexa]

@JumpingSpots

COTH has an article posted with a statement from USEF and mention of a dispute of ownership:

"There is a dispute between the Maranos and Wilten over the horse’s ownership. The Maranos say Wilten once owned a part of the horse but doesn’t anymore, while Wilten says he still owns a small share. Neither has a sales contract, and Carollo is registered with the USEF and FEI with Kocher as the owner.

Wilten said regardless of the current ownership dispute, he no longer wants to be paid out on any part he may own in the horse if Kocher continues to ride him."

I was surprised to read that there is a dispute between the Maranos and Wilten and yet Kocher is listed as the owner under USEF/FEI. Really surprising was that “neither has a sales contract”. I was adamant about getting a legal bill of sale on the horse that was given to me for FREE. I can’t imagine not having one for such a valuable horse. Or a horse of any value, actually.

Is it normal at that level to have such confusion over ownership? A and B claim ownership, and yet C is the one actually listed?

[Big_Tag]

@no sniveling

I’m wondering if the reluctance of the officials to intervene could have been due to an incident on 7 July, apparently there was quite a commotion when AK was DQ’ed from another class- quoted (sic) from the eye candy page

“Have you ever seen a sadder horse? This is poor baby Squirt Gun being humiliated—ejected and eliminated from the derby! He was eliminated after he hit and knocked down a jump. The jump crew asked Andy to move so they could put back up the jump, but by moving Andy “broke the rules” and was kicked off the course! We were lectured about not knowing the rules and in response I blew my top, used excessive volume and profanity and accused the entire Spruce Meadows staff of being hypocrites as their own ground crew is obviously unaware of rules the exhibitors are supposed to know like the back of their hands! Look at what you did to Squirt! Look at the dejection! Only eight years old and he probably woulda come out on only those four faults! No water jump or liverpool ever scared this guy! I also became angry at Andy for smiling in this photo, but he said he had to be strong for Squirt.”

This post (from FB, not COTH poster) is absolutely ridiculous.

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=no sniveling;n10432558]
I’m wondering if the reluctance of the officials to intervene could have been due to an incident on 7 July, apparently there was quite a commotion when AK was DQ’ed from another class- quoted (sic) from the eye candy page:

[/QUOTE

That was the same class and I believe after the round in question. He has a stop at the jump off the bank and all the rails fell. While jump crew was fixing it looked like he asked to be let out which is what got him eliminated as it was flagged as a closed obstacle

[AffirmedHope]

And on the post of the derby faults there are now some nasty comments about the girl that was killed schooling cross country and eventing. I’m amazed at how low some of these people can keep going.

[Darkwave]

@MHM

If it weren’t for the discussion on social media, this episode would have gone completely under the radar, other than for the relatively small number of people who saw it happen. Clearly the rider and the main owners would not have given it a second thought.

This all reminds me of the Frank Meza discussion that came up in running, where a runner who had undeniably consistently and repeatedly cut courses in marathons was eventually DQd from the LA Marathon after massive social media pressure.

Obviously course-cutting is not as severe an offense as was Kocher’s lack of horsemanship, but they are both examples of misconduct during public sporting events that results in a social media firestorm.

I think that when one participates in a public competition, one implicitly consents to public discussion of how one competed, including sharp criticism.

Now…if members of this forum were camping out at Andy’s trailer, or repeatedly messaging him on his phone, that would be crossing a line. But discussion of his performance itself does not cross that line, nor do demands to the competition or to the sport’s governing body to review the performance.

As noted by MHM, the sport is probably better off as a result of this particular social media discussion.

[AllOverFarm]

To the owners of Carollo: PLEASE find him another trainer/rider. Someone with his best interest at heart. The AK team & Eye candy jumpers seems so rough around the edges. Carollo deserves Better. PLEASE, for Carollo… find him a barn with horsemanship & class.

[RainWeasley]

@no sniveling

I’m wondering if the reluctance of the officials to intervene could have been due to an incident on 7 July, apparently there was quite a commotion when AK was DQ’ed from another class- quoted (sic) from the eye candy page:

“Have you ever seen a sadder horse? This is poor baby Squirt Gun being humiliated—ejected and eliminated from the derby! He was eliminated after he hit and knocked down a jump. The jump crew asked Andy to move so they could put back up the jump, but by moving Andy “broke the rules” and was kicked off the course! We were lectured about not knowing the rules and in response I blew my top, used excessive volume and profanity and accused the entire Spruce Meadows staff of being hypocrites as their own ground crew is obviously unaware of rules the exhibitors are supposed to know like the back of their hands! Look at what you did to Squirt! Look at the dejection! Only eight years old and he probably woulda come out on only those four faults! No water jump or liverpool ever scared this guy! I also became angry at Andy for smiling in this photo, but he said he had to be strong for Squirt.”

Right, because I’m sure the horse was just SO HUMILIATED AND SAD. This person is insane. No sane person would be boasting about pitching a hissy fit.

[MHM]

@Darkwave

Now…if members of this forum were camping out at Andy’s trailer, or repeatedly messaging him on his phone, that would be crossing a line. But discussion of his performance itself does not cross that line

There is somebody who had a text message exchange with him on the subject, and then posted the screenshot on Facebook. But I am guessing it was somebody who knows him, if she already had his phone number. The screenshot is in the comments on this post, which I believe is public.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10213793046931841&id=1576871075&anchor_reactions=true

[Xctrygirl]

@MHM

There is somebody who had a text message exchange with him on the subject, and then posted the screenshot on Facebook. But I am guessing it was somebody who knows him, if she already had his phone number. The screenshot is in the comments on this post, which I believe is public.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10213793046931841&id=1576871075&anchor_reactions=true

Just to save others some time, the post with the text screenshot is posted by Kerstin Calwer

[LovieBird]

@Big_Tag

This post (from FB, not COTH poster) is absolutely ridiculous.

That post from Eye Candy made me want to vomit. How ignorant and juvenile can one possibly be?!

[DMK]

@MHM

There is somebody who had a text message exchange with him on the subject, and then posted the screenshot on Facebook. But I am guessing it was somebody who knows him, if she already had his phone number. The screenshot is in the comments on this post, which I believe is public.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10213793046931841&id=1576871075&anchor_reactions=true

And seriously, if you are getting unwanted texts from somebody who just has an opinion and isn’t somebody you are accountable to (owner, FEI, etc.), you block the number. You don’t engage. But if you DO engage, you are a fool if you think it is a private conversation. And his response was… just wow.

“I was asked to enter him. So I did”

I’m sure owner pressures are intense, especially when you are just starting to break into the upper echelon, and when one of the owners are like that whackadoodle, eye candy jumper… that can’t make things easier. That said, as the rider and trainer, you are the custodian of that horse’s welfare. You are supposed to be the one standing between the horse and bad owner decisions. In short, you are supposed to be the adult in the room. And if you couldn’t persuade the owner to not go through with the entry/you were worried about them pulling the horse (although without a bill of sale, that umm, seems unlikely), you still had the option to pull up in the class. And if it wasn’t glaringly obvious that you needed to pull up after that bank, then maybe you are not an adequate custodian of your horse.

Although to all the people saying he should be banned, never let near a ring, etc., whether you are correct or not about that, it is beyond highly unlikely that it will happen. So hopefully the FEI will act on it and hopefully AK and the owners will learn from both the social media pressures and any actions by the governing bodies.

[BLBGP]

@DMK

And seriously, if you are getting unwanted texts from somebody who just has an opinion and isn’t somebody you are accountable to (owner, FEI, etc.), you block the number. You don’t engage. But if you DO engage, you are a fool if you think it is a private conversation. And his response was… just wow.

“I was asked to enter him. So I did”

I read that text as he was asked to apologize, so he did. Either way, not good at all.