Well I have seen a bunch of horses lean on the bit for support when they are tired, I imagine a standing might work the same if it was fitted to. I have never seen it happen, just have been told that was a use for them. Just saying.
It is impossible for a tired horse or a horse of any kind to lean on a standing martingale unless it was way way too short.
CSSJR
I am an eventer and have asked about martingales. I never use one, personally. I have been told that with a standing, if the horse were to pull his head up and feel its resistance, he may rear up and flip over since he cannot “get away” from the resistance pulling him down. I’ve seen running martingales used mostly with horses that have a tendency to flip their heads.
as for ‘why’, think of what happens when a horse trips or slips at a full gallop and cannot lift it’s head enough and ends up flipping because it can’t get out of the way. Nuff said.
as for the ‘feel’, if you COULD feel it, it was adjusted too tightly. It only comes into play when a horse is getting REALLY strong and trying to avoid the bit by tossing/lifting the head up high.
If you think your horse can’t get enough stretch to his neck if he hits a hole or stumbles badly at a gallop, try this:
Adjust the martingale as I instructed earlier.
Now let the horse graze.
Notice that the martingale goes totally slack, hangs loose because he has his head down to the ground.
Of course, that is not the same as falling.
But if you look at it while he is grazing you can see that there is enough slack in it that he can get all the stretch he wants.
Now a martingale that is part of the breastplate will not have as much slack in it because it is fastened to the front of the breastplate, not to the girth.
Nevertheless, just think how many hunt horses step in ground hog holes, blind ditches in weed fields, jump drop fences and have a hard time with their footing on the other side, go up and down really steep creek banks, etc., and you can imagine that all foxhunters who put standing martingales on their horses would be dead if a properly adjusted martingale would cause all of the things the naysayers tell you they will.
It just is not so.
CSSJR
Um, no. I’m afraid whoever told you that did not know what they were talking about.
Really, not trying to give folks a hard time, but I am puzzled as to who creates or spreads these theories.
A horse in ANY properly adjusted martingale is NOT going to have restricted movement for galloping or jumping or recovering from slips or trips. If you’ve seen that- well you’ve seen something with either a too tight martingale or a slip or trip that had nothing to do with whether the horse was wearing a martingale, or not.
As for ‘feel-’ you misunderstood what I meant, and I do know how to properly adjust a martingale, :)thanks.
ANY improperly adjusted or maintained tack can cause wrecks. Your martingale can be just fine, but if your saddle or bridle is wrong, you could have a wreck- and blame it on the martingale, maybe. If you want to see a horse flip over in a hurry- put a full bridle on wrong, with the snaffle under the bit- I watched a rider get a broken pelvis that way. She was carted off to the hospital, bridle was fixed, spare jockey got on, horse was fine for the parade. No martingales involved.
[QUOTE=cssutton;4547694]
I never ever get on a horse without a standing martingale.
I am not the rider I once was. I am now 81, but I have a photo of me jumping a horse about 64 years ago over a 4’ triple bar 12’ spread in a standing martingale.
Obviously it did not bother him.
The way you adjust one is you with your left hand hold his head up in the normal position it should be in. You use your right hand to chuck him under the throat right at the throat latch with the martingale strap over your hand. The martingale should just touch his throat at the junction of his jaws (really between his jaw bones). No shorter and no longer.
With that adjustment he will not hit you in the nose if he decides to play a little and he can not stretch his head out ahead as when landing enough to be restricted.
Also if he stumbles and stretches his head down and forward he will not be restricted.
As his head is lowered, the martingale is effectively lengthened because it becomes a straight line between his girth and nose band. When he raises his head, as when shying, throwing his head or otherwise playing, the martingale is shorter because it has to wrap around his chest.
The old rule, a straight line is the shortest distance.
A running martingale to me is like riding with mittens.
There is one serious thought to the difference. If you have to jump off and in a hurry lead your horse, like to help with a hound or to catch a horse or help someone mount that has fallen, the running martingale will not allow you to quickly throw the reins over the horses head. You must unbuckle.
The ideal standing martingale will have a snap. Most of those that fasten to a breat plate do so with a snap.
This is invaluable if you ever have to cross water or a bog that you believe to be a trap. Unsnap and the horse’s head is totally free.
I have never seen it, but I have heard of horses getting afoot in their martingale and drowning. Whether this is true or an old wives tale, I know not. But crossing that kind of stuff is where you might want to unsnap it.
However, no matter what anyone tells you, a standing martingale properly adjusted will do what it is intended to do and will not interfere with a horse’s jump.
And if you are riding a horse that shies violently, head up, it will save your teeth and nose.
CSSJr[/QUOTE]
Drowning is a real issue with standing martingales. Because eventing has water obstacles (the old days had deep water crossings, too), that was why standing martingales are ILLEGAL. If a horse falls, they may have trouble getting their nose above the water. Snaps are fine, as long as you unsnap whenever you even get near water. I don’t see too many people actually do that in the field.
The problem would not be that the horse can not get up.
A martingale does not hinder a horse in getting up at all unless he gets his foot over the strap.
I can’t count the number of times I have had a horse fall with a standing martingale and in every case the horse was on his feet before I could get on mine.
When swimming a horse’s head is in a much higher attitude in relation to his body and his nose is extended almost horizontal.
A linked photo of horse swimming, note head and nose position:
http://www.uscavalryschool.com/photos/09_swimming.htm
Since a standing is specifically designed to keep a horse from getting his head in that position, obviously a standing and swimming don’t mix.
The danger in a standing would be that the horse attempting to swim would be prevented from getting his head in that position and would therefore put him in danger of drowning.
I know it has been posted in several places that horses have drowned in 2 ft. of water. A horses head is more than 2 ft. off the ground when down unless he is laid out absolutely flat and for that to happen, there is something else going on.
The first thing anyone should ask themselves at this point is:
How many times in your life with a horse have you had to swim a river while hunting?
How many times have you been in water over knee deep while hunting.
Contrast that with how many times you have had a horse throw his head, spit out the bit and do something stupid before you could gain control.
Once you answer all of that, you can decide the merits of a standing.
CSSJR
Weren’t there two horse deaths in the Olympics in Mexico? Both from drowning? I have no idea if they had martingales on, but I would think the risk of ending up in a creek that had swelled more than you thought it did could be an issue. Then again, if you know the territory really well, perhaps that would not be an issue.
Having never had a horse who would toss his head and spit out the bit in open field and not being a big fan of taking a horse with such a habit out somewhere unconfined, I guess I would lean against a standing martingale. To each their own.
Eventing was a very wet affair, but no, I do not recall horse deaths during the '68 Olympics.
As to the latter, get back to us after you’ve been hunting for a few decades.
[QUOTE=Ajierene;4595713]
Weren’t there two horse deaths in the Olympics in Mexico? Both from drowning? I have no idea if they had martingales on, but I would think the risk of ending up in a creek that had swelled more than you thought it did could be an issue. Then again, if you know the territory really well, perhaps that would not be an issue.
Having never had a horse who would toss his head and spit out the bit in open field and not being a big fan of taking a horse with such a habit out somewhere unconfined, I guess I would lean against a standing martingale. To each their own.[/QUOTE]
I hope that when anyone mentions horses dying, by any means but in this particular case certainly if by drowning, they mention the horses name, the year it took place and either a link or a newspaper clipping.
Rumors are not educational.
Also quote the rule that allows standing martingales in the Olympics.
I suspect you will find that your two dead horses would not have been allowed to compete in a standing martingale.
CSSJR
[QUOTE=Good Old Sledge;4547950]
When cssutton speaks, people listen.
regarding unhooking running martingales when swimming and/or dismounting.[/QUOTE]
Cssutton unsnaps standing martingale - am I mixed up?..
My horse, when hunting, would bump his nose out to snatch the reins to charge jumps. I used a standing martingale for a few times until he realized if he timed it right he could break his noseband or standing martingale. I started using a running martingale and never had another problem. He seemed to respect the feel of the running and would test once and then relax and go to work. I think it depends on the horse as to which is the most appropriate.
:lol::lol: Amazing how the most sedate, well mannered and trained horse turns into a wild monkey in the hunt field? Especially on that first cold frosty morning? Or High Holy Days?
The nice thing about hunting is that we can generally use what works for the horse. As long as it’s well fitted, adjusted and used correctly.
The horse I was referring to was used as a beginner horse in a riding school. He was hard to keep moving. In small groups trail riding he was awesome. He would even be considered a great “babysitter” for horses who had never been out of the ring. But add in hounds and a chase…You had better be ready, cause he wasn’t gonna be left behind.
[QUOTE=Galiba;4608386]
Cssutton unsnaps standing martingale - am I mixed up?..[/QUOTE]
Standing martingales when attached to a hunting breast plate are frequently fastened with a snap.
No, I don’t unsnap mine because I do not swim rivers but the capability is there for anyone who believes he is faced with deep water or maybe deep mud under shallow water.
CSSJR
[QUOTE=jawa;4608586]
My horse, when hunting, would bump his nose out to snatch the reins to charge jumps. I used a standing martingale for a few times until he realized if he timed it right he could break his noseband or standing martingale. I started using a running martingale and never had another problem. He seemed to respect the feel of the running and would test once and then relax and go to work. I think it depends on the horse as to which is the most appropriate.[/QUOTE]
A polo martingale and a round rolled nose band with the seam against his nose will cure that. Years ago I saw a rolled nose band with a small chain sewn into the seam.
CSSJR
[QUOTE=jawa;4608586]
My horse, when hunting, would bump his nose out to snatch the reins to charge jumps. I used a standing martingale for a few times until he realized if he timed it right he could break his noseband or standing martingale. I started using a running martingale and never had another problem. He seemed to respect the feel of the running and would test once and then relax and go to work. I think it depends on the horse as to which is the most appropriate.[/QUOTE]
I am not quote sure what you mean by “out”.
If the martingale is properly adjusted, “out” can not break it.
A properly adjusted standing only affects the horse if he tries to raise his head above the normal level.
If “out” means reaching as if to bite another horse, the martingale can not restrict that reach if adjusted properly.
CSSJR
He would bump his nose up and down with in the limits of the martingale and then with one swift movement would have broken the noseband or the martingale. (Funny enough, he used the same tactic to get out of his stall if the stall guard was up. He would press on it with his chest and rock on it with in the limits and then with a finial, swift movement would press hard to break the snaps.) He broke more than one and I have seen other horses do the same. This occurred during his first season hunting. After that, I spent the summer working on his being respectful of my holding him back at jumps to let others clear before we went. I was able to hunt him for several years with out a martingale. His last year hunting he went back to the snatching/bumping the reins to get free of the restriction. I knew his trick with the standing, so we tried the running. It worked quite well. He was retired due eye issues. He couldn’t see as well as he’d like and he was only comfortable jumping on the heels of the previous horse. Not a safe way of going…so he was retired.
