Interesting. In my experience in Area II in the past few years, you always have a set stadium and XC time, but you never really go at that time. They almost never hold anyone to the order of go. Generally you show up to stadium warm-up and put your number on the steward’s list and they take people as they come. Then you go to XC and do the same.
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That is true, time is subjective, BUT, apparently unlike other Areas, they do not even have a distinct start time and all my experience with shows running early, you are never obligated to jump early.
My reply to @leheath s just to give an illustration to show that I do in fact mean EXACT jump time when I say Area II gives an exact jump time.
As someone who has run stadium in-gate/warmup in Area II… The intentions are good but the assignment is impossible. 
Typical situation: First division of the day is an open division. It is entirely filled with BNTs riding three horses in this division, with an additional five horses throughout the day. They all go on time and in order for their first horses of the morning. It is not physically possible for them to make all their assigned times for the day, and dressage times are written in stone, so they’ll be back whenever they’re back with (what seems like) whatever horse they feel like riding next. Times no longer have meaning. Stadium has been running for 15 minutes.
Nature abhors a vacuum and there is now an open ring. There are some people in the rider division hanging out in warmup because they know how this goes and want to beat the heat/rain/traffic/nerves and get done early. We start slotting them in. Then the BNTs come back and need to get in the ring ASAP if there is any hope of finishing this day on time. Mostly everyone understands the deal. One person will throw a fit. (This person will either be a local coach or a 5* rider. It is never someone who actually doesn’t understand. 
) The rider division is complete but four scores from the open are missing. Scoring is confused. Was there a scratch? It will still be a topic of conversation on the radios in an hour. I have one directive: There must not be an open ring, or we will still be here at 8PM.
There is an attempt to get back on track with assigned ride times after every course walk break. But every course walk is followed by an open division for the subsequent level. Rinse and repeat. The day will finally return to running on-time, in-order for the final 30 minutes thanks to the miracle of the BNJR division.
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Yes, I certainly don’t blame the stadium in-gate/ warm-up crew! I agree that if the organizers are going to let the BNTs ride 5 horses in a division there’s no way to keep things on track. And thanks to you for taking on that volunteer job! I can’t even imagine. I stick with the simple stuff like XC jump judging.
It was just a bit of a shock to me the first time I competed in Area II. My previous experience was as a teenager eventing in Area III in the early 90’s. We always did XC before stadium and your XC start time was as serious as your dressage start time. They would start the clock at your time whether you were in the start box or not. And stadium was always in reverse order of placing.
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BE rule book says times for each phase to be published 2 days before the event. If any changes have to be made, every effort to be made to inform competitors and officials. 30 mins allowed as standard between each phase but 60 mins if SJ comes before XC.
Competitors may run early if the event is ahead of time but they are not obliged to go before their allocated time. Competitors are asked to be cooperative if the event is running late (falls etc). Often the time between horses starting drops from every 2 minutes to every 90 seconds until time is caught up. Sometimes the gap between sections is also shortened to catch up.
A typical day as a Fence Judge starts with a briefing at about 08.15, in position for a 09.15 xc start, and we might finish at 19.30 (or, heaven help us, even later!!). Timing is crucial. I cannot imagine running an event without set times.
When I evented in an Area that I will not name, the first thing to do on arrival at the event was find out how far behind schedule they were. In that Area, at the time, no one knew how to run on time. They were typically anywhere from 30-45 min behind, and that could get longer by the end of the day.
I and travel-buddy rider/horse were riding in divisions that were scheduled to go later in the day, and to make the day shorter for us, we didn’t get there until 2 hours before our first ride time. So the event (whatever event) had already been running, and had the chance to fall behind, which they inevitably did.
I moved to a different, larger and more competitive Area. My Lesson # 1 was THEY RUN ON TIME. Dang you better be ready at your ride time. Nothing short of a serious unplanned disruption got them off schedule, and even then they knew how to make up time. At every event.
I was volunteering in dressage warm-up at one of the year’s big events in the new-to-me Area, and knew that a few folks from my old Area had traveled in to compete. I quietly asked each one “have you evented in this Area before?” If they said “no”, I told them about running on time. They looked surprised - they didn’t know it could be done! 
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I’d have pitched a bit of a fit - especially if I’m not doing SJ the same day as XC. Hey, ring steward - I’m not risking hurting my horse who has not loosened up yet at the whim of the judge who doesn’t want to wait.
Ring stewards have a terrible job - keep the day moving, while making sure the BNT (local or not) do not get their panties in a twist, but there are some basic common sense rules if there are assigned ride times. You can allow a rider ahead of time into an empty ring, but you can’t force someone into the ring ahead of a previously assigned time.
Where exactly are you supposed to warm up if not in the warm-up ring? You can’t show up without the fear of being immediately called into the ring? So you get there with an extra 30 minutes over your planned warmup only to find out that the ring is running 45 minutes behind?? Now you’re sitting around for over an hour. I’ve had horses that do not “chill” next to the ring - you’re flying a kite at the end of the reins. And I often show on my own - I don’t have a posse of people to keep track of things like if the ring is running ahead.
For you all who’ve had the “you’ll ride when I say you’ll ride” experience, how many have then mentioned to the manager that it happened? I know plenty of judges who want to move things along and don’t really care the chaos they cause. Ring stewards can easily get intimidated and feel the pressure to do what the judge wants, regardless of what has been published. And the competition manager half the time does not realize it is going on.
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In some venues this is a huge problem. There are technical delegates that are also stressful, intimidating forces all day long, when they should be making sure that everything is running smoothly.
One TD in my current area tries to finish every single horse trial an hour early. As a volunteer who has worked with her often, at more than one venue, I started keeping track. For all the pushing and “announcer call them to warm-up!” etc. & so on, we never, ever finished more than 15 minutes early. Not one time.
Was it worth it? The badgering and pushing of the riders, parents, trainers? Blowing up people’s carefully crafted riding and trainer schedules, creating unnecessary ring conflicts? All for 15 minutes?
That TD has other significant drawbacks as well, makes a LOT of mistakes, and 75% of the time is paying zero attention to the show but is pounding away at her phone instead. Plus, advertises her MLM side business at every horse trials where she officiates. Just an ass, generally, IMO.
But the organizer thinks she is soooo reliable and has had her out frequently. Because she never refuses a date, because there are only two venues that will use her.
I’m not sure who should get the lovely job of bringing the organizer up to speed. Wish someone would. There are such better TD options available around here.
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I was dressage writing at an affiliated show. The Judge didn’t even say “good morning” before we climbed into the car, nor introduced the Trainee Judge who got into the back seat. First rider, I went wrong: movement and comments out of sync. Argh help!! Very loud “tut” from Judge. I scrabbled to catch up. Then the next rider, the same. And the third, fourth… by this time the Judge, who still hadn’t actually spoken to me, was sending firey glares at me. It was a totally stressful mess! Then the Trainee Judge in the back lent forward and told the Judge “The test has changed. One movement in the old test has been split into two in this new test”. Yay! It wasn’t my incompetence! Another massive “Humph!” from the Judge. At the end of the morning, the Judge got out of the car and walked off, no salutation, no apology for his mistake. I went into to Show Organiser’s office and told her that I had spent the morning with the world’s rudest man and she laughed and said “Won’t have him back, then”.
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My experience in area II (published start times for all phases):
Dressage is the only one where if it is running early anyone really cares about your published start time and you can choose to wait for your time.
IME SJ’s adherence to order of go varies from pretty close (only those with multiple rides go out of order) to a “put your number in” scenario where if you arrive planning a 20 min warm-up you might find yourself 40 min late.
When SJ is running early they are typically pretty nice to those who missed the memo. This actually happened to me at Great Meadows 2 weekends ago, I arrived in warm-up, a higher number than me was going, I still had 20 minutes til my start time (and tend to require a bit of a warm-up) and they were nice about it.
I’m not sure there is an actual rule that they can’t close a division before your start time, but I’d expect reasonable accommodation in warm-up if they are running early.
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This has also been my experience in Area 2.
Dressage - yes - you must ride at the appointed time (but they can’t make you ride early); SJ is more “fluid.” I have never been rushed into the ring UNLESS I ride late in my division and they are about to change the fences for the next division. Lots of pros with multiple rides, so it pays to be accomodating. Most riders know the drill, and sometimes they take numbers, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they go in numerical order, often they don’t.
With RARE exceptions (there was one time at Morven when an entitled A-hole of a BNT bullied the SJ steward into holding the ring and putting HIS STUDENTS ahead of the rest of us), the majority of the time it works - people learn to be flexible, get to SJ warmup early enough to get a reasonable warmup in, and are ready to go when they are called. Pretty much same with x-country; you are expected to go to x-country warmup, but are not bullied or rushed. We never feel compelled to ride at the exact published ride time we are assigned for the jumping phases, but it all gets done.
Brian O’Connor is the KING of “moving things along” and making up time when things are running behind; you will always hear him on the PA system encouraging riders to “get on down to warmup”; I actually appreciate this when I’m a JJ 
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As a warm-up ring steward, I really try to work with the trainers, I know how hard their schedule can be.
But I expect them to work with me in return. And to show some consideration for every other rider in warm-up who worked hard to be here, too. And fergodssake to set an example of good sportsmanship for the warm-up ring that can see and hear them.
When the bigger-name BNT’s are in warm-up, everyone is aware of them. The riders, other trainers, pare nts, grooms, spectators - everyone has at least a sliver of attention on their behavior. Every BNT should know they are on stage at all times at a show. That’s the life they chose. Live up to it.
I had one who became an ass right in front of the entire warm-up ring and in-gate crowd when he tried to push his students in front of the same riders who had already been asked to delay, twice! Buddy, I have two people whose turn has passed and who have been ready to do their round for 30 minutes. Twice already we asked them to delay for your riders, then told them they could go next, but instead pushed them back again for more of your riders. They are going now. They will be done and your additional riders will be in the ring within less than 5 minutes. That’s fair and you are still on your schedule. The face that guy made looked like a toddler throwing his toys, and more than a dozen people were watching everything.
Had the trainer come to me as soon as he got to warm-up and explained how many he had coming and when, then it would have been easy to work them in with minimal disruption to everyone else in the class. Everyone deserves the chance to warm-up to have their best go, not just the BNT students.
I’m happy to work with professionals who behave like good professionals. I’m out of patience with big babies who make this sport look bad.
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I was at a schooling show last weekend that ran early and as I arrived to each warm up I was told “we are ahead, we’d love it if you’d go as soon as you are ready but you don’t have to” I am a nervous wreck so I jump two fences and that’s all I’ve got in me so I’m good getting it over.
I was volunteering at a major HT the weekend before and I heard the same thing. In fact, most of the riders in XC warm up would not go early at all.
One year when I volunteered and we were right at the end with a major storm barreling down I ran to the barns to tell people to get their shit together because we were starting riders every 30 seconds. In that case everyone cooperated because nobody wanted to be riding during the start of the storm
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That’s good communication! Good for you!
If riders are informed and given a fair chance to be ready, almost all are most cooperative. That’s the key I wish show organizers would live up to, whatever is going on with the schedule. Plan for it, don’t wait for schedule changes to be an unwelcome surprise.
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That would have been really helpful if they had sent someone to our barn to announce the schedule shift.
I did email the secretary who had been really nice and helpful before the show. She said they’re always open to feedback and she would pass on my notes to the show chair and see if they could improve communication next time.
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I entered a recognized event once where dressage was Friday, xc Saturday afternoon and show jumping was Sunday morning. Went home after dressage to prep for the next day. Arrived Saturday morning to discover I had missed my show jumping by 10 minutes - they had changed the day overnight but only on the board at the office. A number of other people in my division were listed as technically “withdrawn” and probably similarly furious. Especially since they had my email and phone number and could easily have communicated that change much better…
oh hell no. Did they still let you ride? I would have fought the good fight over that lol
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Agree. That’s a hill to die on- either let me ride and compete or refund me since you never communicated a schedule change. At a recognized event that is completely unacceptable.
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This was three years ago? I’m just an unpaid volunteer trying to help out, and I know that they were making announcements over the PA about the storm system that had popped up and was headed our way. Weather issues are tough.
They’d already changed the SJ course but they let me go xc. 
