Story of backing a youngster done by a 60 year old AA

[CuriosoJorge]

“The laboratory that does the typing uncovered the fact that the stallion Alexis-Z could not be the son of Almé-Z. The bloodtyping of Alexis-Z received from Germany included only two markers, meaning new blood needed to be drawn. At that time it was concluded that, on the basis of three markers that are very typical for offspring of Almé-Z, Alexis-Z could not be his son. A second test confirmed this result (pub. 4/14/1994). At the date of this publication (5/11/1994) it not yet clear how this occurred. The Zangersheide stud, where Alexis-Z was born, has tried to prove on the basis of the available documentation that the fault was not made there. It has been investigated - and is still being investigated - if it is possible to determine the sire. Parentage can be determined through blood typing with 98% certainty. The stallion committee is of the opinion though that the blood typing will not give the final answer.“

Photo of young Onze Fons here https://www.kwpn.org/kwpn_database?horse=p-314136

[Manni01]

Well thank you so much for this information!!!
I still remember Alexis ( I believe there was a brother Amaretto as well) because I was a huge fan of him in my youth!! He was a lovely chestnut and a great jumper although I always thought he was wasted as a jumper because he looked like he could have been a nice dressage horse as well. he was one of the reasons I considered the filly.
And I always thought he was not a typical son of Alme because I am not a huge fan of him, so that’s good to know!
Thank you again

[Manni01]

I never heard of him before but I loved his sire Alexis❤️

[Manni01]

IMG_3877

Uploading: IMG_4638.mov…

Glad that the little videoclips seem to work,

IMG_4638

[Manni01]

So after we backed her it became boring. My main goal was to establish routines to show her places and to get a nice relationship with her.

At that point being in a jumper barn was a little problem for me. I am not the most confident person in the world and riding a youngster while jumper rider are jumping was not my ideal. I admit I try to create the ideal environment in order to avoid setting up the ride with the option to fail. also I love this guy who helped me but after that he was not what I imagined as a trainer for us…
My initial goal was to do the mare performance test with her in 2023 and so I started to go to a judges training seminar with her in May as a demo rider. Usually they are desperate for demo riders because nobody wants to ruin his chances for shows by going there….
For me it was perfect because I did not want to show in that year and I wanted to get independent opinions…
It was an amazing experience and I am not sure I would do it again.
I found out that these future judges are pretty clueless…. Which is funny if you listen to them trying to evaluate the horses but scares you for the future if you ever meet them… They basically gave me the comment, that my horse is an old fashioned type with a big head….
Afterwards I asked the teaching judges how they evaluated my mare and they said that she had 3 quality gaits but lacked riding experience…
I did know that we were not ready for a young horse class. It I was thrilled that we both went to this event by ourselves and she was a saint…
So I guess my goal was reached…
During the summer I was still struggling to find a reliable trainer and it kind of delayed our progress… In July we went to a clinic in our statestud .
And that was really really fun!!! We did a lot of firsts and she behaved perfect!!
And we met a girl who worked as a young horse backer for Schockemöhle for 2 years and backed my mares father … I thought that was kind of cool so I asked her whether she would care to sit on my mare. she did
These are the picture and the second video in my previous post…. For me it was amazing that she simply put spurs on and my mare did not mind at all (until then I did not wear spurs with her…) She was impressed with my mare but confirmed that she was not ready to do the mare performance test and get great scores .
So I eliminated the test from my goals….
And the year continued…. In the fall I finally found a trainer and I decided to turn her out full time which was a very good decision……

[Bogey2]

yes it does help…I also give the voice command based on where the outside hind is (stepping under for canter etc.)

[merrygoround]

Correct!

[Manni01]

Just curious… why no lunging? I am not sure whether I am fit enough to trot besides a young horse for rounds and rounds until it learned to listen to me. Besides that you can already assess the right rhythm for your horse on the lunge trotting…

[eightpondfarm]

@Manni01

Just curious… why no lunging?

It makes me feel bad to see a horse worked in a circle. And tighter, longer, more often makes me feel worse still. It feels wrong to me, so i don’t do it.

@Manni01

am not sure whether I am fit enough to trot besides a young horse for rounds and rounds until it learned to listen to me.

I jog beside as long as it takes to get them into a bit of a trot as my intention is merely to link the verbal command to the gait. And that happens only during an upward transition, so no need to go jogging around a track or anything. Lots and lots of transitions linked to the words, with me at their head…we go together until they have learned how to lead very well. It’s like AKC obedience with a dog, but with fun injected. And food rewards.

@Manni01

Besides that you can already assess the right rhythm for your horse on the lunge trotting…

I assess my horses’ rhythm pretty easily aboard, doesn’t everyone?

And once a young horse is balanced enough, they show you their natural tempo, yes? Their very own trot. Every one of the horses i ride has a different natural tempo…like snowflakes, each one is different.

[Bluey]

Longing has several purposes and none of those is to wear a horse out going around and around, that is misusing longing.

The main one, you can evaluate the way of going right off if you are wondering if horse is sore somewhere, without needing a second pair of eyes on the horse as you do when riding.

Much as you can see with a horse at liberty, or feel while riding, longing is one more way to evaluate, vets do it all day long when examining horses, as part of all other ways to do so.

As with all, a bit goes a long way and not every horse every time needs longing, but is a useful tool complementing horse and handler skills.

[eightpondfarm]

i just don’t because it feels wrong to me. She asked, i answered.

I have a whole lot of ‘horse rules’. And not lunging is one of them.

I think this might be one of those: ’ you do you ’ things. You guys can chitter away about how wrong i am, belittle me, make fun of me even… but i can pretty much guarantee you i will not be swayed.

[Bluey]

@eightpondfarm

i just don’t because it feels wrong to me. She asked, i answered.

I have a whole lot of ‘horse rules’. And not lunging is one of them.

I think this might be one of those: ’ you do you ’ things. You guys can chitter away about how wrong i am, belittle me, make fun of me even… but i can pretty much guarantee you i will not be swayed.

Was not criticizing, just adding to what all longing can be.

Of course everyone needs to do what they want with their horses and no one else needs to try to "belittle, make fun or think anyone is making fun by bringing more to the table, what an idea!

Sorry if my post caused offense, none meant.

[eightpondfarm]

@Bluey

make fun or think anyone is making fun by bringing more to the table, what an idea!

o kaaaay.

[SuzieQNutter]

No offence taken from that Bluey.

You can not learn dressage without having an open mind. Life is better with an open mind. That is why we ask questions.

@eightpondfarm

You guys can chitter away about how wrong i am, belittle me, make fun of me even… but i can pretty much guarantee you i will not be swayed.

Is a closed mind.

No one is Chittering away. No one is saying you are wrong and making fun of you. You are saying at your place is is my way or the highway. That is fine.

What is not fine is belittling others who do different to you. You are the one making fun of us.

Us being those who have had decades of lessons and worked in the industries. Those of us who advocate for horses and do our best to promote good training without horse abuse. You seem to despise us. I can feel your despise. You don’t seem to like dressage people at all.

[eightpondfarm]

ahhh…but did you actually read what you just posted? try reading it outloud to yourself…

[eightpondfarm]

@SuzieQNutter

No offence taken from that Bluey.

You can not learn dressage without having an open mind. Life is better with an open mind. That is why we ask questions.

@eightpondfarm

You guys can chitter away about how wrong i am, belittle me, make fun of me even… but i can pretty much guarantee you i will not be swayed.

Is a closed mind.

No one is Chittering away. No one is saying you are wrong and making fun of you. You are saying at your place is is my way or the highway. That is fine.

What is not fine is belittling others who do different to you. You are the one making fun of us.

Us being those who have had decades of lessons and worked in the industries. Those of us who advocate for horses and do our best to promote good training without horse abuse. You seem to despise us. I can feel your despise. You don’t seem to like dressage people at all.

here… read it for content. This is what you wrote.

[Ghazzu]

What a lovely young mare, Manni!

[Bluey]

In our instructor program, as assistant instructor, we had apprentices under our guidance.
One of the first and important skills was to teach them how to longe properly, which taught them body language, how to communicate with the horse.
A bit like obedience training a dog, is not what you teach as much as that you teach the dog that you are asking it to work with you and both of you have a purpose doing so and specific skills to help with the communication.

Any other than traditional obedience training as is today would work, is the concepts, not what you do, that is the basis of working with another, be it human or horse or dog.

As we were teaching new apprentices, you could tell who was a natural at understanding and being able to “talk” horse, who would learn when taught and the rare one that just was too clumsy to learn the timing it takes to use body language well.
Longing in a way can be said to be like a dance of both complimenting each other, not like a hooked fish fighting at the end of a line.

When working with horses that they and the handler know how to longe helps in so many instances, for a quick check assessing a horse, to rehab under control, for a horse that is having trouble concentrating, to stretch horse’s legs for a bit, to further teach some tricks, for a vet to add to his exam, etc.

You can do all that in other ways, longing just one more.

[GraceLikeRain]

Getting back to the original topic. Manni could you talk a bit more about what was missing for the mare test and how those areas of growth have evolved in the time since?

[Janet]

@Bluey

The main one, you can evaluate the way of going right off if you are wondering if horse is sore somewhere, without needing a second pair of eyes on the horse as you do when riding.

Also, comparing how the horse goes circling right, circling left, and on a straight line, is very useful for diagnosing lamenesses, or NQR.