Wait, a 28 cm is narrow or M/N, right? So he needs a 27 cm? This is the narrowest tree they make. My high withered tb fit a 28 cm. I saw someone recently on FB (I think) looking for a 27 cm tree. I will see if I can find the post.
You can look at the used Zarias on the Stubben NA website to see the price range. They are generally higher than what I see on Ebay, FB, etc. I bought a pristine almost-new Genesis dressage saddle for $800 on Ebay, and most of the used ones on the Stubben website are $2000+. (Not saying that you can only get $800 for your saddles; the Zarias are pretty popular).
This is where I am confused on the Stubben sizing. I’ve always been told that 27, 28cm are narrows and that 29 is M/N and 30 is M and 31 is M/W. Stubben rep says my guy needs a 28cm tree. I’m surprised by this because my boy is a tank but she is the expert. However, I rode in Stubben rep’s 28cm Zaria and I definitely felt a difference in myself for the better.
At the beginning of my saddle search in May 2016, I had an unaffiliated saddle fitter (SF#1) do wither tracings for him and she said he needed a medium tree and suggested cutback pommel and upswept panels. She did not have anything in stock that would fit him so suggested looking at major retailers for noncustom options. She also suggested looking into saddles that had trees pointing away, which is why I started looking into Stubbens with the NT.
In July 2016 I took a “Medium” Zaria out on trial, and had another unaffiliated saddle fitter (SF#2) come out and check it before I purchased it. She said it fit him great, but needed to settle before reflocking. Trusting her judgment, I purchased it brand new from a major tack retailer. Then it sat for ~9 months in storage because horse had 7 months off and I didn’t use it.
In July 2017 I started jumping again, so contacted a Stubben rep to come out after I got a handful of rides in it so the saddle was broken in. Stubben rep came out Oct 2017 and says it’s not a medium at all, but a 31 cm, and it’s too wide for him and is causing pressure right on his shoulders/withers.
Stubben Rep is saying it is a 31 cm saddle (which it is, now that I know how to read serial # codes). Vendor I purchased it from says it’s supposed to be a Medium, which it is not. SF#1 says horse is supposed to need a Medium tree, which he doesn’t. SF#2 says the 31cm fit him, which it doesn’t.
So long story short, saddle is not the size it was sold as, and horse is not the size the original saddle fitter says he was. The other wonderful thing is that the dressage saddle that I had fitted by both SF#1 and SF#2 is apparently incompatible as well. How’s that for a saddle fitting nightmare?
I see them fairly regularly on eBay. I got a horse from my trainer this summer and am buying the Zaria she had made for the horse last fall. Horse is hard to fit and I know this saddle fits her. I’ve ridden in it a couple of times and love it. Amazing how we all perceive it differently. I think it feels very close contact and the balance feels similar (to ME) to the old, flat Crosby saddles. I’ve popped over a few weenie fences with it and that just sealed the deal. Sold! Lol
They make such a big deal about how easy it is to change the tree size a few centimeters w/o changing the slope of the tree points, can’t yours be closed a bit? I would be pretty upset too. They really make adjustability a major selling point, so they need to deliver on that.
I had a Stubben fitter out to fit my draft cross and she said he was a 29 cm. The Genesis I bought him the following year that fits is an XW. So I think it is hit or miss with the Stubben fitters (although to be fair he did seem to widen between 7 and 8, but not that much!) That fitter is no longer with Stubben.
My experience with the local “unaffiliated” (very loose term, imho, since all of them want to sell something) fitters is that they know their brands, usually a SMS-related brand, and they don’t understand about Stubbens at all. My experience with our local Stubben rep has been good. I thought she knew her product well and was right on with fitting advice. I did not take her advice, and bought from 3rd parties and have had to struggle a little bit with fit. I probably should have gone with what she said in the first place. I also thought she had a better understanding of horses, saddle fitting, and movement under saddle than some of the local “unaffiliated” fitters, despite being a rep for one particular brand.
I was unaware that Stubben made adjustability a selling point at all. I looked it up and it does look like they do have a device to widen the gullet area but no mention of narrowing a tree.
The Stubben tree sizing can be confusing, but a 31 is definitely not a medium, my completely round no wither pony goes in a 31, and she is a wide in most other brands.
Did the retailer who originally sell you the saddle accidentally ship the wrong size? Any way to go back and look at your original order and see if it was supposed to be a 28 or a 29?
I just wanted to add that the way Stubben measures is different than the way others measure so just because you have a beefy horse doesn’t always mean that you need a wider tree. As I understand it (I could have misunderstood, but I got the same explanation from 2 different Stubben reps), the tree measurement refers the measurement of the area where the trapezius muscle ties into the scapula. Not only can that area be fairly narrow on a TB, but apparently with increased work, it doesn’t get larger (so I’m told)- that happens farther back along the longissimus muscle. This is only what I’ve been told but so far it has been shown to be accurate on my TB. He had awful ulcers last winter and lost 250ish lbs. The saddle I bought then still fits him now, despite gaining that weight back and a fair bit of lovely topline muscle.
I listed it on Facebook for $2300 or $2500, I can’t remember honestly. But I got my asking price and it sold immediately (she took it on trial but it never came back). I should have asked closer to $3000, if not $3000. I LOVED that saddle and would get another in a heartbeat if it could fit me a bit better.
Honestly, I had a similar experience with different reps telling me different things about what I needed and what was available. And when I sold the horse and went to go sell the saddle, I had several tack shops tell me that the used ones don’t sell because the reps just encourage people to get a new one for “not that much more.”
I have had ZERO interest despite pretty aggressively marketing my saddle - until I dropped the price to less than HALF what I paid 6 months ago. The saddle has been ridden 15 times tops.
For the price of the saddle, they didn’t even bundle in the fitting fee. And now that I’m going to sell, most of the high end consignment places won’t take anything Stubben.
I won’t make the same mistake twice. Having to sell a saddle I paid over $5k for, for $2500 is nonsense. A CWD that’s 10 years old and WELL used isn’t even worth that little.
I’m sorry to hear that. Where are you listing yours? Did you try the Lochiatto email group and the Area 1 website? I think I told you about the LG when we were talking about your cute pony, but I can send you another invite if you need.
I’m worried I’ll have to do the same, drop it to a very low price just to move it. The problem is, I can’t just buy another brand new saddle… I worked my tail off to get my current Zaria brand new, and I just can’t justify buying another brand new saddle until I sell this one… Push comes to shove I could return the saddle to the vendor that I bought it from, because they did technically sell me a saddle that is not the size they said it was, but I don’t want to go that route because I’ve had the saddle for a year and ridden in it about ~30x and I don’t want to be scabby like that.
For what it’s worth, I really liked the Stubben NA rep that came out. She was nice and knowledgeable, and she let me ride in her own personal saddle (which is the same saddle as mine, just a smaller tree) and there was definitely a difference in the way my body was positioned. I wasn’t aware how much I was fighting the saddle’s proclivity to pitch down (since it is too wide for the horse, it’s tilted downwards) until I sat in the 28cm Zaria. I don’t think she’s lying to me just to get me to buy a new saddle – I could see how much more balanced the saddle was than my Zaria when she put it on her, and I could feel it too. So she wasn’t just telling me the saddle didn’t fit, she actually put her money where her mouth was and let me try the saddle she said would fit, and it did fit.
The other thing… for what it is worth, I’ve employed five or six saddle fitters in Area I now and this Stubben rep was the first one to want to see me ride in my saddle[s] before she made any assessment… so… there’s that. She also had me ride in a few others as well.
@scruffy the cat
thanks for chiming in with your experience - and that elucidation about the tree sizing. That makes more sense to me.
@jumponit The vendor is supposed to only carry medium trees for the saddle I ordered. They’ve always done that – carry only Mediums unless a special order. I ordered a Medium which is their standard stock they carry, they sent me their standard stock but it looks like they don’t or didn’t know that a 31cm is not a Medium.
Lol YOU are the one who first told me adjustability was a selling point! And when I investigated, I found the link below. At the bottom of the page under “Device to Adapt the Width of a Stubben Saddle Tree”, it does not say widen only, it says “alter” and “adjust”. There’s another link somewhere on Stubben’s page that shows how the points are constructed to show how it can be adjusted without changing the slope of the gullet.
I think you might have misunderstood me because I have never heard about adjustability until yesterday and their magical tool. But they ARE known as saddles that fit a wide variety of horses, especially with those swept back tree points. You might have conflated that discussion with the discussion of my previous saddle, which was adjustable. (And still didn’t fit my TB.)
Where are you listing yours? Did you try the Lochiatto email group and the Area 1 website? I think I told you about the LG when we were talking about your cute pony, but I can send you another invite if you need.
