it’s quite a popular opinion w true horsemen. horsewomen.
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Please explain what true horsemen/women are?
I was more or less talking about Olympians or riders who competed at big international events who are considered experts because they proved they can do it….
And they are the ones displayed in videos in the moment…. And people go crazy to audit their clinics or ride with them…
If I remember clearly the CD clinic in the US was a huge success…. Also the Helgstrand event in Wellington was full….
Full clinics are only a measure of popularity in certain circles.
I don’t know many people - if any - who would pay to ride with Helgstrand. And I’m willing to bet CD wouldn’t get as many people now as in the past.
I mourn on their behalf.
Not.
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Well you seem to have a strong opinion, which I really admire. But I would bet that many many riders (especially if they show ) would still ride with one of the big names, even if there are certain doubts about how they train horses…
just saying Cesar Parra is still in business, AH is really doing well (considered what he did and is probably still doing, I assume the video was recorded after the report about how horses are trained in his barn) there is a lot of activity already to excuse CD so I bet in about a year she is back in business, and other suspects will become much more cautious about Handys in their facilities. But somehow I doubt that they will change their training methods….
And the only thing which counts is sucess for most riders who show…
Not the people I know.
There are all manner of ethics.
Choose wisely.
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I’d say a true horseman/woman is someone who is able to bring a horse along from baby to educated riding horse. Someone who has an understanding of what makes horses tick, and most importantly, someone to whom a horse’s well-being is paramount. Personally, I think you gain a lot of information about where a horse’s head is on any individual day, when you groom and tack the horse. Olympians can compete successfully in the largest arenas, they are brilliant at that.Do they ever pick up a curry or hoof pick? Do they know anything about pasture management, feeding, evaluating injuries? Can they pick up subtle neurological signs? There’s more to being a horseman than being an excellent rider. I certainly don’t have the skill to ride at the highest levels, but I know every inch of my horse.
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Oh come now. These people don’t just miraculously fall onto the backs of million dollar horses. Let’s not make them out to be imbeciles who only show up to get on the horse and then leave and know absolutely nothing about horses. 
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My go-to exercise for a horse “behind the leg ignoring forward aid” is -
walk to hand gallop transitions.
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Transitions Transitions Transitions
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Two entirely different things here. Teaching piaffe and behind the leg.
Piaffe training should start at a young age and if the handler understands that it will take 4/8 years to train they will be fine. Some you can teach in hand and some from the saddle. At its basic core of understanding, it is teaching the horse to hold each hind leg in the desired shape. Then the horse needs to understand that the right hind leg is attached to the riders right leg etc. If you don’t have these two elements the horse doesn’t have an understanding of why they are moving in piaffe.
I see many people get to PSG and be like ok now I want to start piaffe work. Piaffe work should be a part of the understanding of the horse from the first move off from the riders leg. The expectation of each leg aid I use should be thinking about the finished leg aid on any GP movement.
Behind the leg is INTENT of the horse to move in the riders desired way. It is NOT speed. So many riders do not understand this; I didn’t truly understand it until switching to dressage (in jumping it was clear because the horse wanted the jump but was in my head, created from forward. Now I understand it differently as the horses desire to go in a desired way). So many riders and trainer do not and can not read intent. Some times you do NEED to go forward faster so the horse understands free and forward motion. Every horse struggles to learn in different ways and we as trainers/riders have to help them understand their options of moving forward.
I have a young horse currently in my barn who was spanked and cranked and shut down when he came to my barn. It’s been a long year and a half… but he is finally thinking forward. The hard issue with this guy is his intent to go is there, but he is a big long horse and there is a heck of a delay before he actually goes. The huge change in his willingness was allowing the time and SPACE for him to start moving. I mean it’s a delay of a second or two which is a LONG time from application and release of the aids before he will fire. I could feel it but it was HARD to be that patient. The owner found this harder because as a rider while he was deciding to go you feel quite vulnerable. Any correction while he was thinking forward told him he was wrong and made him more confused… which as a kind horse he would freeze. The space to allow him to know he was right to go from the aid is the key… but if you can’t read or feel his intent you are dead in the water with this guy.
As we allowed this guy this space he has become quicker in his response time but there is still this delay. For whatever reason this delay is there (past training, his physical length, mental understanding, etc) it is uncomfortable for the rider and this time must be taken… but the trainer and rider MUST be able to read the intent of the horse or the correction comes too quick and the horse shuts down.
This guy we did start the in hand work very quickly. It gave him the understanding to move the leg off the touch and cluck but also how we wanted him to move that leg from the touch and cluck. That confidence has transferred to the under saddle work. If someone watched him work now they wouldn’t even see the delay; but you still can feel it and I would bet a new rider would trigger the longer delay.
One day in the next year when I layer in the half step aid he will be able to find the correct answer and the road to piaffe will be easier and less stressful because the foundation of expectation has been so firmly established. Bringing intent and training together is the whole point of dressage.
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Since this topic has wandered around to a lot of places, here’s another example of “how I fixed horse not forward”. Horse is a laid back 6 year old GRP. We’ve always thought he was lazy. He’s been hard to get going for more than a short period of time. But his ears are forward and he’s just kind of meh about using himself.
He develops bumps under the saddle, call the fitter out who said yikes, he’s grown, lets try a few different ones. Welp. He’s forward now. He’s quick off the leg and zooming off down the long sides and I am in need of a half halt. I’m no longer working too hard to keep him moving but I’m working really hard to stay with the movement!
His saddle was shutting him down. In the past, he’s been more opinionated about the saddle -actually balking or bucking - but this was gradual and he was just not. going. forward.
So there’s the “did you check your saddle” comment for the thread. 
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Well said
In my case, sadly, this horse is a really fascinating case in equine motivation. Any sort of pressure tends to shut him down. It’s not just ridden. I observed it the other day when he did not want to return into the barn but instead stay outside and eat grass. Pressure (applied by his trainer, not by me) caused him to turn into a statue.
I have no idea how he got into this state but he has certainly opened my eyes - I’ve owned a lot of conscientious objectors - horses who I ended up with because they were acting out when pressured, and I have always been able to turn them around but I’ve never had one that shut down to the extent that he wouldn’t move at all. The horse turns into a complete and utter statue, and I’m not sure anyone has the willpower to wait him out. Really is fascinating.
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