Ahh, ok.
Currently have only done the coffin joint injections.
I’m hesitant to do direct to the bursa as a highly respected regional vet in my area said that usually (of course there are always exceptions) that for whatever reason, it seems that you only get a couple good results, if that, and then the horse is shot. So that would be a concern for me, as horse is only 17 and I’d like to keep him around for a long time. His experience is that he would only do the direct bursae injections if you hoped to get one more year or one more season out of your horse, otherwise he didn’t like to do those at all.
Unless other have had other experience with direct bursa injections?
Maybe it depends on what you inject? My vet didn’t seem to think IRAP posed that kind of risk. Was he talking about a kenalog/ha injection?
Curious. If a horse is nerved, is it truly sound then?
At a jog, how is this acceptable? We don’t allow drugs to mask lameness, but we can nerve a horse for lameness? Genuinely asking.
I understand it is case by case, but also feel if you are needing to nerve the horse for comfort I would want to only nerve to keep them “comfortable” in the paddock and maybe the odd light work. I’m surprised that its more common than we think. I’ve not been in the situation to have to think about it, and hope not to be. Just curious how this is OK at an FEI level if the horse technically isn’t sound.
5 Likes
I think it’s literally not allowed at FEI competitions (and not allowed under UK national rules). So not ok at the FEI level 
edit: I am in no way saying the OP shouldn’t de-nerve her horse. There is definitely a place for ethical de-nerving if it’s in the horse’s best interest.
3 Likes
Boehringer who make Equioxx have a page about it and the first line is:
“EQUIOXX for horses controls pain and inflammation associated with osteoarthritis for up to 24 hours with each dose.”
So I mean I think the average Joelene can call it a pain killer, by most definitions and without qualifiers. But totally agree that this particular horse needs better diagnostics - sounds like OP is investigating options now.
2 Likes
Good points and I should have clarified. Yes, that would be with a usual steroid cocktail for the bursae injection, where the horse is “shot” shortly thereafter.
My normal lameness vet can do ProStride and that would be a thought and/or question for a direct bursae injection that I can reach out to the regional specialist about.
Now? I very specifically asked for other options in the very first paragraph of my OP when I specifically said:
“I thought I’d reach out to the brilliant minds of COTH to see if I am missing anything else I can try for his navicular or if there are any success stories after a neurectomy.”
Arguing on if Equioxx is a pain killler and arguing on the ethics of a neurectomy, is not giving me ideas/questions/thoughts to help my horse.
4 Likes
I haven’t found anything that is working completely for my navicular horse, but I’m definitely getting response from IRAP in both the coffin joint and bursa. I would imagine ProStride would be a good option too. I also got a big improvement immediately with the first shockwave treatment my vet did, but it’s only been about 4 days, so I cannot comment on how well it lasts. My vet wanted to try both those things before we discuss neurectomy, so maybe those are ideas?
1 Like
That would be my goal if I ever went that route with my mare . Also the reasons that the OP started this thread , if not mistaken.
1 Like
Navicular bursa injections are cortisone with or without HA. Would need experienced vet to perform. Have not heard of limitations on frequency of injections. I would try it before denerving though.
They definitely can also be a modern biologic. I had my mare’s done with IRAP last week. I was just guessing that the comment about only getting one season was related to a steroid injection, although I’m not even sure that’s true with the current steroid that is typically used.
1 Like
ProStride is basically a combo of IRAP and PRP.
My vet does have shockwave as well, but my understanding of that is it’s more for breaking up scar tissue, perhaps old tendon injuries for example. So it’s never been discussed for my horse’s case. And I know there are mixed study results for using shockwave for navicular.
I’d be curious to know how your horse does long term.
What improvements did you notice? Less stiffness, truer stride, etc??
I guess when that regional specialist told me that, it really stuck with me! But I do like the idea of the biologics.
I had ProStride done on another horse in the past, which unfortunately didn’t really work for him. But horses are all individuals.
She honestly was immediately more comfortable after shock wave treatment. She was obviously landing better and her stride wasn’t as shortened. She galloped out of the barn when I put her out, and she hadn’t been doing more than a slow walk for a couple weeks (she’s a TB though, so galloping around like an idiot is her thing). It’s lasted all week so far, but I think we have to get through a series of treatments before we expect lasting results. I’ll post back—I’m really hoping it works for her in combination with the other things we’re doing since we’re running out of options to keep her comfortable.
My vet seems to think shock wave could be pretty effective for some navicular horses to help get inflammation and pain under control in conjunction with other treatment. It’s not invasive, so could be worth a try to see if you get any response even if I don’t.
1 Like
IS it commonly done in USA this procédure? I live in Europe and i don t think done a lot and for sure quite criticized. I have a young horse that has been in pain for two Years now and honestly i wouldn t mind doing it if i could because hé s in pain ALL thé Time. IS it done only on older horses?
I think it is fairly rare. When it is done for the right reasons and in the right way, it can provide years of pain-free life for a horse that would otherwise suffer. One of the problems is the prospect of an owner selling the horse without disclosure. Obviously unethical.
Over the years I have known two horses that had it done. AFAIK they both stayed with their owners and were “sound” and rideable for at least a couple of years. Both were in their mid teens. I suspect that the vet would only do this for arthritic type conditions that typically affect older horses.
Why is your young horse in pain?
1 Like
Well, i think it IS not a good Idea for mine thén. Hé s only five and hé s really in pain, don t know how to manage it being so young. I m afraid that hé will not have a long and happy life
Thought I would pop back on with a little update, as I just dumped a bunch of money at the vet today. 
We’ve had a heck of a horrible winter so I haven’t even rode him yet this year (only have ridden my other two on 4 occasions, carefully and slowly on the side of the road as there’s ice and now everywhere). But time will tell how he responds.
We re-did xrays of his front feet today. Minimal change, which I guess is good. Soles are a little thin although not horrible. I am going to the farrier in 2 days so I can bring him the fresh xrays and come up with the best shoes for him. Vet today injected coffin joints with the usual steroid cocktail and we also decided to give him another Osphos shot. I’m really not sure how the first one worked, if at all. But… could that be why his xrays are still fairly stable-ish? Maybe. Or maybe not. Impossible to know what “would have” happened if I didn’t do the Osphos shot last time. But I figured if I’m going to throw the kitchen sink at him, then let’s do it.
Earlier this week, I started a loading dose of Pentosan. Also started feeding him CEP X-treme Relief supplement. Might also add the Hoof RX later. Supposedly it helps increase circulation. Vet and I had a little discussion about that, and she really thinks our long cold winters play a factor and that circulation does have something to do with it, although there really aren’t formal studies on it.
I was hoping to have started doing my PEMF treatments on him by now, but good grief everything is still a muddy, snowy, icy mess outside. I am so anal about my things, I can’t bring myself to drag it in and out of the house every day (still gets quite cold at night and I don’t want to damage the battery), and then drag it through the mud on top of it. So I’m just going to wait until the conditions outside are a little better. I think the PEMF could at least play a good role in better circulation for him, along with reducing inflammation.
I did also put him back on Equioxx a couple weeks ago.
We’ll give all these things a couple months (give the Osphos the 45 days at least) and then I’ll take him back for a lameness eval and see what he looks like. If he’s still pretty sore, even with all these things, then vet is open to trying the temporary chemical de-nerving on him, to see if that helps. Or… try shockwave treatments first.
Vet and I also talked about isoxuprine. It’s more of an “old school” method but she has done it from time to time, and the idea is that it helps increase circulation. Downside is it has to be given by pill twice a day. I can handle the once a day easily, but the twice a day would be really difficult to me so we’re not going to give that a try right now, and save it more for a last resort type of thing.
So at least there’s a couple more things up the sleeve if all these initial things don’t help.
2 Likes
12 Likes
I mean this only with kindness.
I had one nerved. Once. I will never do it again.
2 Likes
