Glad to hear about the ulcers (treatable), not so good about his neck and ataxia, but fingers crossed that it won’t cause trouble in the future. Isn’t it a relief just to know?
Well done you for getting him checked out.
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I will add that my horse with neck issues also totally failed the tail pull test and initial basic neuro exam when he had ulcers. And the ulcers were much milder than these. Neuro tests after ulcer treatment were back to WNL but because of some continued resistance, we injected the neck which did help a lot. So don’t panic yet. Also you might not notice a big change with the neck treatment till after 2-4 weeks too so you may only just be seeing those benefits by the time you scope again.
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Interesting about the neuro tests and ulcers…hoping my guy will also be better once the ulcers are gone! He is a really floaty mover…and we know that newer research is sort of pointing towards some of the really good moving/floaty movers being a tiny bit neuro and that may sometimes actually make their movement fancier. Most of the neuro issues they say were toe drag and hypermetric up front, so it’s not that he was falling over or losing balance.
I am definitely feeling a lot more hopeful…he was a brat to load to come home - I think he mentally had enough after 4 days at the vet clinic! He was just full of it! LOL I just turned him out for the night on his grass and he looked so much happier and settled. So I’m sure after a day or two of being back out he will be back to more normal. I did go and get some alfalfa cubes to add to his diet…he gets so little grain it’s hard to sneak in meds, so the soaked cubes will help at least get the gabapentin in him and may help the ulcers a bit too. He will pretty much have off from riding until the 8th of July, as I have two work trips…I will just groom and handwalk (and do some trailer loading!!) until then so he has plenty of time to just chill and let his system calm down.
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So, thought I would update…because at some point, someone else will be digging through old threads trying to find answers and ideas to help with their horse’s issues (as I was doing this past week).
So about 2-3 weeks after the start of ulcer treatment and neck injections I got on to see what I had. First day was not great, but I could coax some walk steps out of him. Thought, okay this seems promising, as he is not angry. Got on next day…OMG, he humped his back and was super angry. I dismounted when it was my decision instead of getting sent to the rafters. He was that angry. Decided to give him off until I was sure the ulcers had healed (I was headed out for a 10 day trip anyway).
After 5 weeks, did the rescope. Ulcers 100% healed, stomach looks great. Great news! I will also say that by now, he was back to his old self in general…loaded on trailer, super easy to deal with, not spooking at stuff or getting grumpy. Just chill and happy horse.
Last week, I decided time to try getting back on since the ulcers were gone and his overall demeanor was so good. Lunged first day - he was really quiet and easy. Did some weight up in the stirrup and at the mounting block, all good.
Next day…he was more fussy to lunge, but still quiet enough. Got on, he felt tense, but not humping his back. So I just sat and did lots of neck scratches. Coaxed a few steps from him. He was not happy, but he was not being naughty either. He could not walk a straight line…haunches drifting to the left (yet would not turn to the left for anything, ie, you couldn’t even pivot to the left). I could get him to follow the right rein a bit and take 3-4 steps. He feels wonky behind (not like he will fall, but like he can’t step under properly). I was starting to get more steps by letting him stop and get scratches, then a few steps and more scratches. Felt like some progress. Then he spooked big time (in all fairness an entire flock of blackbirds slammed into the side of the indoor…so it was legit and he just jumped sideways and stopped). He got REALLY tense and upset after that (about me on his back, not about the birds)…had tried to walk and he humped up his back and did a bunny hop thing (but not a try to buck you off…he felt stuck). I then just let him stand and lots more neck scratches and he started to relax. Got a few quiet steps and decided enough.
So…we are no further. Definitely feels like something in his back/SI/pelvis. Lunging to the left he is swishing his tail a lot. Cross cantering/bunny hops in the canter both ways. Resistant to get the left lead on the lunge. Before all this he could w/t/c on the lunge both ways easily.
Another odd thing…he’s been getting more grumpy about his fly sheet being put on (he’s very used to blankets/fly sheets and has never had an issue). First it was ear pinning (for a horse I’ve never seen pin his ears). Thought maybe due to the ulcers, but they are gone. Last night I went to put his fly sheet on and as I went to toss it over his back he flattened his ears and crowhopped straight up and kicked out. He has also been more grumpy about tack (and I’ve tried several different types of saddles and pad combos).
So, if he is totally off for a few weeks, you can coax out a bit of a walk from him. If you try to get on a second day, he is super angry. He is better to just lunge, but not 100% comfortable there either.
We go back to NBC in 10 days for another eval…bone scan, and probably an ultrasound of the back/SI/pelvis. It’s probably going to be a turn out for 6-8 months as a treatment…but I want to know what we are trying to heal first in case there are other things we can do.
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Oh dear, I’m so sorry to hear this.
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You know, I think I might be chasing down PSSM2. This sounds an awful lot like a horse I had in training a year ago, who turned out to be positive for PSSM2. He made an amazing turn around with the right diet, and daily forced exercise (i.e. riding, longeing, or hand walking, not just pasture turnout). No access to grass is a good place to start.
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So…for those who want to play armchair vet or are just following the saga and like to figure out puzzles…since my horses always like to make things more confusing and complicated, here is more “data” from today.
Went up to NBC and I stayed and lunged for the vet exam (bone scan scheduled for tomorrow). They did trot in hand for lameness, looked pretty decent. Lunged, first with no tack, just halter. He was better than he had been at home (ie he did trot a bit…at home all I got was the middle finger). After changing directions, then he decided enough and started with the same behaviors as home (stopping, tail swishing, head tossing, etc.). Lunged with the bridle on…behaviors even more pronounced.
Vet decides on a whim to grab some topical lidocaine and put it in his mouth. Give it a few minutes and go back to lunge in the halter. All of a sudden we can lunge…both directions, w/t/c. Some stops the one direction but they quickly went away. Bridle on and the same - he continues to get easier to lunge. Saddle on…continues to be good (little more lidocaine as it was wearing off as we had to wait for another horse to be lunged a bit).
The difference was quite dramatic before and after the lidocaine…he also completely stopped fussing with the bit and was totally quiet in his mouth. His overall behavior was also much quieter and less ADHD…he just chilled out. It surprised the vet that the lidocaine made that much of a difference. So now we have a direction to look in.
Radiographs didn’t show anything dramatic. There is some ridging visible on xray where the wolf teeth were removed…he had massive wolf teeth, but they came out cleanly when he was 2…they were just beyond huge. That would make sense why a bit could be more aggravating, but he was just as bad going in the halter/bitless.
More diagnostics being done tomorrow.
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Just wanted to say thanks for the updates. I’ve been following in sympathy- you’ve been through quite the wringer. Good luck.
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Okay…need some jingles. Just got a call from the vet clinic that my guy is colicky. Probably due to the sedation for the scans shutting his gut down. Rectal showed some impaction…he’s been tubed and they are doing IV fluids (and banamine of course). Fingers crossed no phone calls overnight as that would mean he’s getting worse…no news is good news overnight.
I’m mentally toast…I feel it’s my fault since I am the one putting him through all this testing. But, at the same time, we had to try to sort out what’s wrong.
The vet hasn’t had time to process the results from the CT or bone scan. There are some abnormalities on both. The CT showed a back molar that has enlarged/bulbous roots…but not sure what to make of that (vet who specializes in dentistry will be reviewing imaging Thursday as that’s her day there). Bone scan showed increased uptake at the junction of the T17 and T18 ribs with the vertebra. We would need to ultrasound…vet said in the past the uptake has been consistent with an old fracture in that area, but can’t be sure. If we have to do an ultrasound we will probably bring him home (assuming we get through the colic) and give him 2-3 weeks to not be poked and go back up for the ultrasound. I don’t want him having to get a bunch more sedation right now, unless there is no option.
UGH. Horses. Remind we why we do this again?!?!
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Jingles!! I hope you hear nothing tonight and the colic resolves.
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Tons of jingles and hope for no overnight calls with a positive update in the morning. You are searching for every possible zebra. He’s lucky to have you as an advocate who believes that his “no” meant something physical and didn’t write it off. Hopefully the impaction will resolve quickly and all of the tests will bring clarity on next steps.
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Jingles
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Oh no, I hope it’s something they can resolve with fluids etc. Do you need to sedate for an ultrasound of T17-18? I think that might be possible without much upset to him before he comes home.
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just piling on all my jingles and hoping for a good update.
I’ve heard of horses that had all sorts of behavior problems and upon necropsy were found to have painful dental problems. It’s not impossible that removing the bad teeth will make a significant improvement. I would have thought the old rib injury would be the smoking gun except that oral lidocaine made such a huge impact.
Your horse is so lucky to have you. You are doing everything you can, and making your choices for all the right reasons.
Hugs and sympathies…
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So good news with no phone calls last night. Update seems promising this morning…he was comfortable through the night without any more banamine. Passed multiple piles of manure. Rectal this morning still shows a bit more manure in the pelvic flexure area they would like…but things are okay. They were going to continue the fluids, do several walks…maybe a bit of grass this afternoon if he continues to look comfy. No sedation or testing today to give him a break.
@IPEsq I also asked about doing the ultrasound without sedation…since he’s pretty good and it’s an area that doesn’t put anyone doing the u/s in jeopardy (ie if he gets fussy, it’s not like they are under or behind him). They are going to see if u/s would consider it. It’s the university vet hospital…so I think the rule is to sedate for everything…unlike my farm vet who will attempt first and then sedate only if needed.
Otherwise, tomorrow he sees the vet/dentist and they probably are going to have to sedate to get a good look at his mouth (assuming no more colic issues…his well being comes first even if we have to return at a later date)…they were going to try to coordinate the ultrasound as soon as the dental exam is done so that it would be one dose of sedation to cover both exams. They have stocks to do the ultrasound, so I really think he will be okay about that even if there wasn’t sedation.
It is looking more like we have two separate issues (mouth and ribs)…which would also explain why his presentation was sort of complex/inconsistent. The rib issue definitely fits with the humping his back and anger with a rider up…and with the refusing to even pivot to the left with a rider on (hot spots are on the L). But the difference lunging with the lidocaine was also so dramatic, that there has to be something to that too.
I just hope we can get him through this and he can come home and just chill and recover. Poor guy…I am going to owe him a lot of cookies!
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Hm that’s interesting. I’ve done ultrasounds of a lot of body parts with university vets and most of the time, no or very light sedation is all that’s needed. Exceptions being things like rectal or if the horse is really fidgety and you really need them still (like neck, or if they want to kick you for getting up in their stifle area). Shoot, the university even shockwaved my horse’s poll without sedation because he’d had the limit that day for other things. That seems way more dangerous. Good news is the horse liked it and the poor resident didn’t die.
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He is a very ADHD 4 yo…he’s not mean or bad at all…but he’s definitely a fidget with the leadline always in the mouth type. They said he really needs to hold still because of the location, so maybe that’s why. I would still think they could give it a try…but the do seem to tend towards more often using sedation.
Good news is the impaction has fully cleared, so thanks to everyone for those jingles! Not sure when the dentist will be there tomorrow. We will probably be able to bring him home Friday am…they want to keep him one more night to make sure he stays comfy after tests tomorrow. Hopefully after tomorrow we will have a plan…guessing for the probable rib fractures it will be time off. Not sure what we will need to do with the possible mouth issue.
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I think @beowulf has experience with rib fractures.
Boarder are my barn had one with rib injury as well. I think she said it was a good 6 months to heal. 6-8 months seems to be typical for bone healing going by my horse with the scapula fracture and research I’ve done. But I’d bet you can do something unridden beforehand—we were doing very controlled hand walking I think at 4 months. But my vets were also very concerned about preventing large callus formation while minimizing adhesions, which may or may not be as big of a deal with ribs given that it’s not part of a weight bearing limb, depending on what they see.
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So glad the impaction cleared up! I hope you get resolution for the other issues soon and he feels better.
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Just an idea, but ask how they do dynamic scopes without sedation. On young race horses.
It may be generally done, but I’d bet if you put your case out there they might re-consider. Advocate, advocate, advocate.
Signed,
the person who got her small animal vet to do a snout biopsy in the regular exam room with me restraining the cat (and local anaesthetic of course!) because it would have been a complete nightmare to take her into the back without doing another full sedation and that was not in the cards at that time for that animal.
Glad the impaction cleared!!!
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