Suggestions on Classes to enter? Don't shoot me :-)

[RxCate]

I looked at your jumping video. You keep pulling her back down to a trot when she was doing a nice canter - why? If she’s cantering softly, let her continue on. I like that you circled her, I assume to get her settled at the canter, but then you let her drop down to a trot and I went “oh… why’d she do that?”

She is SUPER cute. I think you need a bigger saddle and a smaller person (your riding is fine, you’re a little heavy seated and your legs need to settle and come back under you a bit - I only say this since you mentioned EQ).

I would hold off on the jumping for now and keep her going over calveletti and focus more on flatwork to get those changes down.

[findeight]

Where’s the video? Back on the other thread? Link? On phone at work, no can poke around looking for it.

[Belmont]

Every time you post pictures of this pony, I really want to come steal it.

That is all.

[LittleMissBigTime]

[QUOTE=RxCate;7756014]
I looked at your jumping video. You keep pulling her back down to a trot when she was doing a nice canter - why? If she’s cantering softly, let her continue on. I like that you circled her, I assume to get her settled at the canter, but then you let her drop down to a trot and I went “oh… why’d she do that?”

She is SUPER cute. I think you need a bigger saddle and a smaller person (your riding is fine, you’re a little heavy seated and your legs need to settle and come back under you a bit - I only say this since you mentioned EQ).

I would hold off on the jumping for now and keep her going over calveletti and focus more on flatwork to get those changes down.[/QUOTE]

Jumping video was back in July, the first time I really started playing around a course with her. I was super duper UNCONFIDENT in what she was going to do, and that day was a HUGE turning point in my riding with her, as I learned to trust her a lot more. I think I kept holding her back because I was anticipating that she was going to dump me off in front of it. She never did, and never has, and I have since learned that anticipating awful things is usually what causes them to occur, and have since been more aware of what I’m doing when I’m on her.

I do need a bigger saddle, but she was fitted to this saddle and within the budget of this time, I couldn’t get anything bigger. She is short backed, so the 17.5" ended right where it should. My fitter let me know that there are options to get a bigger “seat” without it coming off and longer on her back, but the options get pricey.

I let her off of jumping for the following almost two months, and the second video is the first time popping her over something since that last video. She has gained a lot of strength through her back end, and the changes are coming, all of a sudden quite quickly.

RxCate:

flat video
http://youtu.be/HjFBI8HjvRs

jump video:
http://youtu.be/cnlCUKrGt3E
(turn down your volume…friend thought it was funny to put Avenged Sevenfold’s music on this video…)

[LittleMissBigTime]

[QUOTE=Belmont;7756076]
Every time you post pictures of this pony, I really want to come steal it.

That is all.[/QUOTE]

Know a kid that can ride her? SOLD! :yes: :lol:

You see where I struggle with what to do with this pony now??? She’s super cute and super smart, and as soon as my car pulls up to the barn her head is sticking out the stall and my heart melts. Here I’m away from her all “business” talking about selling her, and as soon as I get to the barn tonight that thought won’t cross my mind again!

[findeight]

She will delight some lucky child, I’ll look at the videos later at home.

[Jumper_girl221]

puts on not an expert disclaimer limited edition hat

One thing I would recommend for a horse that tends to get quick. Whatever speed you have coming in, that’s the speed you should have leaving. Even her trot approaches get a bit fast and quick, then she flings herself over the fence and isnt’ sure how to get out of her own way.

I’d recommend random ground poles too while flatting to get her over her spurting over the poles as well. If she’s doing them all over the place, they quickly lose their “OMG A JUMP POLE MUST GO FAST” appeal and reaction

I wouldn’t worry about the headshaking too much, she’s a pony, and a mare, both of which have opinions Maybe down the road look at a martingale or a different bitting option. I would recommend making sure that your saddle isn’t putting pressure on her withers or shoulders, since my mare will do that (and worse) if the saddle fit isn’t quite right there.

While you do look a bit big for her, there are some classes at the local level that you could take her in, something like a “hopeful” hunter (usually open) or open hunter. Verify what height will break her green, for our local C circuit its showing over 2’6".

Good luck with her, she’s darling. I somehow always find myself migrating back to the ponies despite being 5’10". My first pony was 14.0 and she showed the jumpers…did quite well and was very competitive up to 3’6", it really just depends on how much scope you are dealing with.

And as far as size, you are a bit bigger then what would be ideal for an appealing picture. But I wouldn’t let that stop you as long as you know it will affect your placings in the hunters. I showed this mare in 2010 and she was only 13.3 (this was her first show). We did some jumpers and a few “hopeful hunter” classes. http://youtu.be/R3vUYCW7gik

[LittleMissBigTime]

I have been doing random pole work with her recently, but mostly at the walk and trot. You definitely read her right on the whole “OMG JUMP POLE LETS FLY TO IT OVER IT AND AFTER IT” thing…if she catches sight of some of the random poles while we are cantering, and I am not asking her to go over them, she will fight me and beg and plead with me to go over them. She treats them as 2 foot verticals so you caught me! We need to work on that :yes:

I have been extremely on the fence about a martingale for her.

I’ve been debating between a standing and a running… I know the limitations for both in the show ring.

BUT I am curious of other opinions on either of them for schooling. As a junior rider I rode with an amazing EQ/Hunter trainer, and each horse was not “complete” without a standing. As a young(er than I am now) adult I rode with an event trainer who thought during a jump lesson no horse was complete without a running. I understand the use for each, and the overall typical “goal” of not allowing a horses’ head to bash you in the face. I do also have that chime in my head that says “no martingale, she’ll use it to brace against and balance herself incorrectly” as well as as the whole “you should never jump your horse over 2 feet with a standing”… the never ending dilemmas :no:

[foursocks]

She is ADORABLE!

My two cents: from those two videos she looks like she isn’t comfortable with contact, so if you can get a good dressage trainer to help both of you figure that out you will be further ahead in sorting through the other parts of her training. The head tossing and all of that is something that needs to be settled or you will continue to have trouble getting to poles or fences without her over-reacting. You have nice hands, but (from what I can tell) they need to be more consistent and she needs to accept contact without being resentful of it. Not accepting contact means she is often inverted and not using herself properly- in other words, she isn’t working over her back and reaching for the bit. Really good, correct flatwork will make her stronger and much easier to bring along over fences.

I am a reformed HP and don’t even own a martingale at this point- I do the jumpers now and train with an eventer. He more or less tossed my standing out the window during my first lesson with him and I’ve never missed it. I might have a running attachment in my trailer, now that I think about it. Anyway, you could stick a standing or a running on her but it won’t help with getting her to accept contact, and certainly the running may make her resent contact even more. If you can really sort through your flatwork that will get you much further along in your jumping.

She is really, really cute and I think correct flatwork is going to make a huge difference for you both.

[Dewey]

My advice is not to use a martingale unless you really need it. I do not believe in using one to “complete the look.”

[oceanmountain]

Look into Ravenswood Farm, they are near you and are great with the hunters.

[Jumper_girl221]

[QUOTE=LittleMissBigTime;7756386]
I have been doing random pole work with her recently, but mostly at the walk and trot. You definitely read her right on the whole “OMG JUMP POLE LETS FLY TO IT OVER IT AND AFTER IT” thing…if she catches sight of some of the random poles while we are cantering, and I am not asking her to go over them, she will fight me and beg and plead with me to go over them. She treats them as 2 foot verticals so you caught me! We need to work on that :yes:

I have been extremely on the fence about a martingale for her.

I’ve been debating between a standing and a running… I know the limitations for both in the show ring.

BUT I am curious of other opinions on either of them for schooling. As a junior rider I rode with an amazing EQ/Hunter trainer, and each horse was not “complete” without a standing. As a young(er than I am now) adult I rode with an event trainer who thought during a jump lesson no horse was complete without a running. I understand the use for each, and the overall typical “goal” of not allowing a horses’ head to bash you in the face. I do also have that chime in my head that says “no martingale, she’ll use it to brace against and balance herself incorrectly” as well as as the whole “you should never jump your horse over 2 feet with a standing”… the never ending dilemmas :no:[/QUOTE]

I don’t know that I would jump to a martingale now, you want her accepting the contact and not fighting you and I’m not sure a martingale would really “help” with that, although it might with the head toss when corrected.

As far as whats allowed, as of April of this year you can show the hunters in both a standing or a running martingale. Certainly wouldn’t worry about jumping more then 2’ with a standing, properly used, it doesn’t interfere with the jump as you can see by the high performance hunters that go in a standing.

Whether the quickness is excitement or anxiety, its not good! not for the jumpers or the hunters. She’s adorable, but once you start going higher the get quick, bury, pop fence is going to pull rails, and the judges will MURDER you for that in the hunters, even with the cutest SS kid around If she were mine, I’d personally ride her over every pole and x I could until it became “eh, a pole, eh a fence” before taking her to a bigger fence or to a show.

[Soaponarope]

Textbook

[QUOTE=findeight;7755744]
Ah, I remember this one from an earlier thread over on Off Course. Nice Pony, Welsh cross probably IIRC, seems to have some quality, color can be a +or a- depending on buyer but many do like it ( least it’s something, not a plain bay). Like to see video trot and canter flat and over fences.

Before you get your heart set on which way to go, has she ever been correctly measured? If you are thinking of aiming for a Division Pony, start by getting a stick on her for an accurate measure- height very much effects not only value but the ability to attract buyers. 14.1 is good, 14.0 puts you in tough sale territory, below that they don’t come look because without an accurate ride, the ones closer to top of the line height just look smoother.

IMO getting to some shows in the very low Hunters is going to get her seen by trainers that could lead to buyers so it’s pretty important she behaves well every time she is in public. Get her broke, get lead changes on her, take your time. Wouldn’t hurt to see a trainer periodically for honest evaluation and help directing your training. Haul in once a month or something.

Having a relationship with a trainer can also help with bringing buyers to you, selling as a FSBO is tough, nobody serious comes to look. Also think you are a bit big for her. Wont matter much over the real low stuff but will when you start stepping up. Relationship with a trainer can get you a good catch rider kid. Remember relationship with trainer does not mean going 100% into their program, just help and guidance as a haul in.

I hate the theory “It’s hot so put it in the Jumpers since it can’t do anything else”. Try TRAINING IT, not dumping it…sorry, pet peeve. Plus that, the Pony Jumper market is dismal. At best. If you focus on regular Ch/Ad Jumpers, buyer needs to be small and that takes out at least half your buyer pool and those jumps can be pretty stout for an average 14.1ish Pony with a average rider.

One other thing, Juniors and Children are two different things at USEF rated shows and many locals. Same ages but Children’s a Hunters jump 3’, Juniors jump 3’ 6", can’t recall the Jumper heights but Juniors is a lot bigger.

I doubt many Juniors want to go back to Ponies, think the regular Children’s divisions are a better target. Just to complicate thing a bit, there is another division called Children’s Hunter Pony that is not the regular division, it’s lower and more for Green Ponies and novice riders.

Whatever you do, DO NOT break her Green status. May need to review the rules to avoid that.

IMO the Pony is cute and has some quality. Worth taking a shot at developing[/QUOTE]

Shoutout to Findeight! This is the textbook answer to the OP’s questions.

[findeight]

I watched, she’s just really green and really does not have the flatwork solid enough for jumping-you can’t help her or correct mistakes. But she’s not bad at all and got better towards the end.

Second the suggestion for some a dressage lessons. Her head motion is in relation to your hand movement too often and she’s not real sure what you want. Being a Pony mare she may also just not feel like it and that’s something she’s going to have to learn is not an option.

Just take time and consistent work. I vote no martingale, it won’t help, getting your hands steadier will plus I didn’t think it was that bad anyway, just green.

Concentrate on extending and collecting her gaits so you can do so when you jump to keep her from getting under and blowing over or getting that loooong spot. Long spots are never anything to accept when schooling a Greenie, bad thing to get into their mind…that’s why you need more flatwork, she is not allowed to jump from anywhere. Try using placement poles on both sides of cross rails to help her figure out where to put her feet and when to jump.

But I’d really get the flat more polished. Get somebody to help you, makes it easier and will pay off big time down the road.

And, BTW, I don’t see über hot or difficult here, just green.

[LittleMissBigTime]

[QUOTE=findeight;7756546]
I watched, she’s just really green and really does not have the flatwork solid enough for jumping-you can’t help her or correct mistakes. But she’s not bad at all and got better towards the end.

Second the suggestion for some a dressage lessons. Her head motion is in relation to your hand movement too often and she’s not real sure what you want. Being a Pony mare she may also just not feel like it and that’s something she’s going to have to learn is not an option.

Just take time and consistent work. I vote no martingale, it won’t help, getting your hands steadier will plus I didn’t think it was that bad anyway, just green.

Concentrate on extending and collecting her gaits so you can do so when you jump to keep her from getting under and blowing over or getting that loooong spot. Long spots are never anything to accept when schooling a Greenie, bad thing to get into their mind…that’s why you need more flatwork, she is not allowed to jump from anywhere. Try using placement poles on both sides of cross rails to help her figure out where to put her feet and when to jump.

But I’d really get the flat more polished. Get somebody to help you, makes it easier and will pay off big time down the road.

And, BTW, I don’t see über hot or difficult here, just green.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for the suggestions! I appreciate it and take it all for what it is!

I don’t think she’s extremely hot or difficult. She absolutely has her moments when she’s not being worked consistently, but, knock on wood, I hope the days of inconsistent work are over for her. If I keep her on the 4 rides a week routine, by the 4th day she goes fairly quiet with no tiffs. The jump video was in July, when here in Florida we had daily afternoon rain. She got ridden at best twice a week. I’ve been pounding out the flat work since that video, and her first hop over a cross rail came when the flat video was recorded, end of last month. I can’t wait to take all the suggestions, put them into my riding, and see what kind of video I can come back with and post next.

I’m not one of those snarky defensive people who gets insulted or feelings hurt when someone tells me something. I take what I know (whether or not I remember or know how to execute it is something for another time) and combine it with what others suggest, and I find that 9/10 times the collaboration of everyone’s’ efforts tends to help the situation.

Thank you all for being a group that I feel comfortable going to and not getting run over and dumped on for asking questions. Everyone has their certain way, but we all work for the common goal of a confident correct safe happy fun ride.

[findeight]

Eh, you take what works from here and ignore the inevitable pontificators speaking down at you from their tall armchair.

But, lose the long spots. Please.

[LittleMissBigTime]

[QUOTE=findeight;7756634]
Eh, you take what works from here and ignore the inevitable pontificators speaking down at you from their tall armchair.

But, lose the long spots. Please.[/QUOTE]

Next time we go over anything, Ill put a ground pole down first, promise!

[findeight]

Oh, I almost forgot the one exercise over poles that every clinician works into their clinic agenda. It’s deceptively easy and combines correct flatwork with adjustability and finding the jumps. Many trainers use it as a standard lesson drill.

You need 2 poles. No standards or anything, just 2 poles. Lay them, say, 5 strides apart ballpark it, no tape measure needed. You can do 4 or 6 if you want, just set it up. Canter down it a few times each way doing nothing, just see how it rides and how many strides Pony likes. Then you are going to add a stride several times each way. Do this by setting your pace back at the corner, not a stride before you get there. This teaches her to rate and you to manage stride length

Then you come around and take the stride you added away, again set pace off corner. Then you take another one out. So, you set your 5 and do it at 5, 6, 5 and 4 then back to 5.

Break it up over days or weeks, you won’t master the adds and leave outs in a day. Doesn’t matter if she straddles the poles or anything, they are just lope overs. After you get good you go to cross rails then jumps.

Its a good old stand by schooling exercise you never get too good for…usually shows all your flatwork flaws. And it will teach you to lengthen stride to a spot instead of going from a long spot without enough step.

[OveroHunter]

If I had a cute pony that stuck 14.1 I would have it with a trainer ASAP to get into hunters for resale.

However, if she’s a keeper I would probably take her to a schooling show and maybe do some under saddle classes just for fun and the experience. I second F8’s groundwork pole suggestion. I did that with my gelding who went through a rushing phase and it really helped us out.

Also if you plan to keep her you may find that you like jumpers more. I have a very short strided 15.2 APHA gelding (pic in profile) that is a great kids/SS/LS hunter where they are a little more relaxed about adding strides down the line, but when I showed him in the adult classes we never placed as well because we would add (sometimes even double add :eek:). We’re enjoying jumpers now just for the fun of it. He’s not super fast but can turn on a dime. Just like someone else said, you don’t need to make your horse a jumper just because they’re hot. That’s pretty much the exact opposite of my problem lol.

[LittleMissBigTime]

Well, since everyone here is pretty helpful, instead of making a whole new post, anyone want to chime in about my bit choice? She’s currently in a copper oval link loose ring (http://www.doversaddlery.com/jp-copper-oval-link-loose-ring/p/X1-01628/) <–that exact one.

She chews it a lot. Basically she has the pattern of chew chew chew put head down, stop chewing stick head straight out…

Her speed and steering differ day to day. Last night we had one of our “not the best” rides.

She had be sent off by her last owner to a dressage trainer who put her in a simple D ring snaffle to assist with steering.

I have been trying to do a lot less from the reins in steering and more from the leg, as she has almost NO response to steering from my leg right now which frustrates me. I hate pulling on her mouth to turn her.

She does get forward, not apparent in the videos I posted earlier as those were days where she had a full warmup. She quiets down about halfway through her workout, but if I let her open up her canter, she fights, HARD, and I have to basically amplify my sitting deep in the saddle much more than I want to, and pull give pull give pull give way more than I should to bring her back. She always always comes back, but I don’t think she respects the bit. I think she likes it when she likes it, but either she’s getting too much action from her mouth and is becoming accustomed to it and doesn’t listen any longer, or something else is happening. Growing up in the EQ barn, bits weren’t up for debate with my trainer. She put what she put on who she wanted, no explaination, no debate. Never really learned a whole lot about bitting options. Through my own education and experience, I’ve always had the “less is more” approach. But I would LOVE to pick brains about other experiences and learn what my bitting options really are. I don’t want to put her into something super strong, but I also don’t want to do damage to her mouth because she has too mild a bit for her level? Does that make sense? I know that if she doesn’t have enough “woah” its usually due to inconsiderate hands…how to I erase whatever inconsiderate feelings she may be holding onto? I am typically soft with her, but like I said, steering and stopping seem to have been exclusively schooled to her by the rein and not seat/legs…which drives me nuts considering she was with a dressage trainer (so I was told) Suggestions: GO!

OH disclaimer: She DID have full dental work done in May. Wolf teeth removed in December of last year. Dental wise her mouth is fine.