Swimming - the women's bodies

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8784784]
Well, we are in the bar quite often, but usually no swimming on TV. Our preferred place is a pool with a bar, but alas, not many of them around.

I do remember hearing about Sun Yang’s positive test and bad attitude, who won his race that night, which sparked the discussion regarding steroids and the women. Someone googled side effects and reported that a side effect in women is a decrease in breast tissue, which is linked to an overall decrease in body fat due to steroid use.

Also, some of those women had a lot of hair under their swim caps causing a boob sized lump on their heads. So the argument about boobs causing drag does not, pardon, hold much water.[/QUOTE]

Watch how they swim and where their heads and that boob sized lump under their capS is and how it is positioned… or maybe an explanation of ‘drag’ would be more helpful to you?

[Where_sMyWhite]

I do agree that yes, across the sports, there has been, are, and will be some type of “doping” due to the pressure to win.

Athletes, coaches, team owners (for pro sports) will always be pursuing what “wins” due to the pressure to win.

I would just hope the governing bodies continue to be honest (not always the current case) and pursue more “honest” competition.

Cycling, I do think teams are working harder than ever before to be at the peak of performance, even without drugs. Training, diet, recovery, bike aerodynamics, body aerodynamics… more focus and attention than ever before.

If doping was that pervasive, the GC riders would be more even and competitive and to me, this year in TdF, not the case. The ultimate winner had very few challenges. If anything, maybe a hairy finger at Froome (or Sagan).

I guess I try to not be so pessimistic that doping today is as rampant as 10, 20, 30 years ago and hopeful that maybe testing is making a dent in it and maybe there are riders that are just that good

PS - and if anything, I’d ding Astana and Tinkoff over some of the other teams Overall frustrating for me as an amateur who likes to watch the event to think that I am watching athletes who aren’t competing “clean”. At least the NASCAR boys seem to be clean and police each other along with NASCAR policing all of them (drivers, pit crews, garage crews ).

[nutmeg]

Here’s some food for thought on the topic of doping from a prominent track coach who is now banned from the sport:

https://www.facebook.com/trevor.graham.3705/posts/764441283699144?pnref=story

That being said, I can testify that the NCAA skiers I roomed with in college grew heaps of muscle in season through exercise alone. The dumb broads would run UP the ski hill! I’d be like, “Look, Stacy, there’s a LIFT,” but they would ignore me. And they had old-school ethics. They did NOT take short-cuts.

[AMWookey]

I am just going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that she has no athletic friends. The average person does not chum around with people at that level of fitness (although I don’t think it excuses the “they look like men comment”. Woman’s body’s come in all shapes and sizes and musculature)

When I was at my fittest, my 32e’s were at a 30c. Sure they didn’t go away completely but that is one heck of a loss for someone who isn’t considered fat with the 32e. I have friends who the first place they lose when they are doing crossfit is in their chest. If you see a woman with low body fat (under 20%) and large breasts, chances are they are augmented. Note I said low body fat and not skinny. There is a huge difference.

When you train your body a certain way over years and years, your musculature is going to change. I would think that an equestrian would understand that. A racing tb looks far different then one that has been retrained for dressage and far different still then one who is going hunters. That isn’t doping, it’s riding, training and conditioning.

My sister in law was a very high level athlete trg for the Olympics before deciding to concentrate on schooling. She will never lose her “cankles”. Kicking things your entire life will do that to a person.

[Wonders12]

Listening to NBC’s swimming commentary, it sure sounds like doping and cover-ups are a serious issue. I think it’s unfair to dismiss the OP’s observations in light of current events.

Yesterday one of the commentators solemnly said, “I’m disappointed that she’s allowed to compete, but I’m not surprised.” In reference to Russia’s Efimova (sp?) who was banned from the Olympics for doping then suddenly allowed to compete at the last minute.

[Jexa]

I think I’m shocked how many people believe that Olympic level sports are mostly clean. There are seriously big bucks in developing new ways to get around the rules and get the edge, especially at that level. Just because they’re not getting caught doesn’t mean they’re not doing it. Not to mention the IOC is well documented as ridiculously corrupt. Worse than FIFA! As JER said there are athletes competing in Rio that have been caught doping multiple times. Watch the swimming…the women’s 200m breaststroke just finished, and there was less than a second’s difference between gold and bronze. Silver, btw, went to the swimmer that has been caught doping at least twice. When such a tiny difference decides who wins or loses, there is huge incentive to do anything that can shave that tenth of a second off your time. Doesn’t make doping right, by any reckoning, but I understand why certain sports are more prone to it.

Sure, the original post’s thought that women can’t possibly have athletic bodies without doping is idiotic, and sexist. IME the guys that disparage a strong woman’s body are typically the guys who have every reason to be insecure about their own bodies. Sports naturally select for certain body types, especially at higher levels, and training only enhances that type. My body rapidly changed the second I was no longer a high level athlete, and that was in a sport that doesn’t favor a certain body type nearly as strongly as other sports do (soccer). I’m still strong(ish) overall, but I have less calf/quad/cardio strength and more upper body/core strength.

Athletic bodies == “must be on steroids!”, BUT don’t think that doping is not still very much a problem.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8786336]
Watch how they swim and where their heads and that boob sized lump under their capS is and how it is positioned… or maybe an explanation of ‘drag’ would be more helpful to you?[/QUOTE]

Which stroke? What about the turns? I demand proof! At what size do boobs slow down a swimmer? In backstroke, the head boob is in the water the whole time and the real boobs can actually help a swimmer with buoyancy. :yes:

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8783863]
Do other Olympic sports belong here or in the Off Topic section?

I was watching swimming in a bar with some friends last night, all of whom decided that women swimmers are on steriods due to their overdeveloped upper bodies along with almost complete lack of breasts. They honestly looked like men. We also watched volleyball, and those women had more normal feminine bodies, even the tall skinny ones.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but wow, I could see what they were talking about.[/QUOTE]

@Jexa;8786990

Sure, the original post’s thought that women can’t possibly have athletic bodies without doping is idiotic, and sexist. Athletic bodies == “must be on steroids!”, BUT don’t think that doping is not still very much a problem.

Did you even read the original post? Where does it say that? :lol:

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Wonders12;8786961]
Listening to NBC’s swimming commentary, it sure sounds like doping and cover-ups are a serious issue. I think it’s unfair to dismiss the OP’s observations in light of current events.

Yesterday one of the commentators solemnly said, “I’m disappointed that she’s allowed to compete, but I’m not surprised.” In reference to Russia’s Efimova (sp?) who was banned from the Olympics for doping then suddenly allowed to compete at the last minute.[/QUOTE]
She looked seriously pissed last night when she didn’t win

[AMWookey]

that women swimmers are on steriods due to their overdeveloped upper bodies along with almost complete lack of breasts. They honestly looked like men.

Sorry Palm Beach - while this doesn’t say all athletes, it does push to the athletic body=must be on steroids assumption that you made. I don’t blame the poster for thinking that you were implying that.

Also what constitutes a 'normal feminine body"? Maybe because I have been friends with athletes my entire life, and am in the military, but I don’t look at those young women and say “they look like a man”. It’s as bad as when they say 'She swims like a man". That is their bodies, therefore they look like themselves, and like a woman.

And I hope that they have strong enough egos to say screw you to all the haters on social media.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8787154]
Which stroke? [/QUOTE]
All of them

In backstroke you are leading with the top of your head as in freestyle.
Fly and breast your forehead. I imagine their heads as seals snouts… very streamlined.

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8787154]
What about the turns? [/QUOTE]
Watch them and learn

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8787154]
I demand proof![/QUOTE]
Watch the Olympics, never will you get a better opportunity to see the mechanics. DH is an official and he’s learning a lot watching the coverage.

@Palm Beach;8787154

At what size do boobs slow down a swimmer? In backstroke, the head boob is in the water the whole time and the real boobs can actually help a swimmer with buoyancy. :yes:

LOL maybe… I wouldn’t know. I sink like a stone, can’t swim a lick and have negative/non alphabet chest measurements.

[Anne_FS]

Don’t know why this isn’t in Off Topic, but this original post reminds me of this:

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/08/female-athletes-at-the-olympics-face-sexism.html

Beginning sentence: The Summer Olympics — that series of sporting events that whips spectators into a patriotic frenzy every four years — started just four days ago, but several media outlets have already reminded us exactly how taxing it is to be a female athlete.

[jen-s]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;8787183]
She looked seriously pissed last night when she didn’t win[/QUOTE]

I’m sure she was. One can only imagine the repercussions for not living up to the highest potential. While Russia has evolved, I can’t imagine that it’s a happy place to go home to if you didn’t deliver.

[Montanas_Girl]

[QUOTE=AMWookey;8786881]
If you see a woman with low body fat (under 20%) and large breasts, chances are they are augmented. Note I said low body fat and not skinny. There is a huge difference.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. Some of us have been “blessed” (or, IMHO, cursed) with large breasts. In graduate school, I took a kinesiology class with a room full of varsity athletes and cheerleaders. I am not now, have never been, and will never be built like those people. But I was FIT from mucking 15 stalls a day and otherwise working my tail off. I had a lower body fat percentage than any other female student in the class (we had to participate in underwater weighing and several other body composition measures) and was a size 0 - and my bra size was 34DDD. I assure you that I was not “augmented”. I wouldn’t wish these things on my worst enemy. Even at that peak level of fitness, my BMI fell into the low end of the “obese” range for my height. I’ve always joked that I could easily lose 20 pounds or more overnight and instantly become a “healthy” body weight if I could just afford a breast reduction.

[AMWookey]

[QUOTE=Montanas_Girl;8788800]
Not necessarily. Some of us have been “blessed” (or, IMHO, cursed) with large breasts. In graduate school, I took a kinesiology class with a room full of varsity athletes and cheerleaders. I am not now, have never been, and will never be built like those people. But I was FIT from mucking 15 stalls a day and otherwise working my tail off. I had a lower body fat percentage than any other female student in the class (we had to participate in underwater weighing and several other body composition measures) and was a size 0 - and my bra size was 34DDD. I assure you that I was not “augmented”. I wouldn’t wish these things on my worst enemy. Even at that peak level of fitness, my BMI fell into the low end of the “obese” range for my height. I’ve always joked that I could easily lose 20 pounds or more overnight and instantly become a “healthy” body weight if I could just afford a breast reduction.[/QUOTE]

I would say you are honestly one of the only people I know of with a body fat under 20% for a woman (which is extreme fitness low) that kept their breasts naturally

[Rackonteur]

I’ve been meaning to go back and look at photos of women swimmers at past Olympics. Wish I’d thought about it while looking at the 1924 swim team the other night.

I was reading an online article about the women’s bodies the other day – not just the swimmers but other athletes. A lot of them have breast reduction surgery (which costs thousands of $$); others starve themselves before puberty so they won’t ever develop breasts.

Some male golfer believes female golfers are handicapped because their breasts get in the way of their swing.

I wondered if breasts really get in the way all that much, then logically male equestrians and cyclists would surgically reduce their genitals so they won’t handicap them when riding. I saw more than one equestrian adjusting his crotch after his ride (not just jumping) these past 4 days. Didn’t see any “equestriennes” adjusting bra straps. But those guys’ ties were all over the place after the stadium jumping!

And don’t get me started on the pommel horse!

ETA: for those here who say the women swimmers’ bodies look like male bodies, I’ve been thinking the men’s bodies look like women’s. I get that they shave body hair for streamlining, but they look like prepubescent boys. Surely a little chest/underarm/leg hair can’t create all that much drag, can it? And the male gymnasts, too, no body hair 'til their raise their arms for their salute.

[Jexa]

[QUOTE=Rackonteur;8789036]
Surely a little chest/underarm/leg hair can’t create all that much drag, can it? [/QUOTE]

One of my roommates in college was a swimmer. Their coach made them not shave (legs or underarms) for weeks leading up to a big event, then shave it all the night before. Supposedly it “shocked” your body when it hit the water. And again, look at the Olympics. Phelps just won another gold by .04 of a second. Four hundredths of a second. Any tiny amount of drag is too much.

[MistyBlue]

My 3 sisters were all competitive swimmers back in the 70s.
They were all built with huge shoulders, arms and had flat chests from the chest muscles.
They swam distance meets and one also swam distance open water.
They trained by swimming laps for hours. They also did laps with their feet tied together so they were only pulling with their arms for countless laps.
All of them had teeny narrow hips and enormously wide shoulders.
No steroids.
When you’re seriously serious about a sport you don’t just practice for it, your lifestyle revolves around training. And when you start young, your body reflects that.
Heck, my youngest daughter isn’t a swimmer but she’s built similar to these ladies in terms of upper body. Hers is from constant strength training and tons of pulls ups and chin ups.
Meanwhile you could pick a lock with my shoulders, lol!

[wireweiners]

Look at the women gymnasts. They have the same general body type, very broad shoulders, small breasts. Just comes from working out in a discipline that requires tremendous upper body strength.

[Rackonteur]

[QUOTE=wireweiners;8789170]
Look at the women gymnasts. They have the same general body type, very broad shoulders, small breasts. Just comes from working out in a discipline that requires tremendous upper body strength.[/QUOTE]

At least the female swimmers don’t have their butt cheeks hanging out in front of the whole world, unlike the female gymnasts. I think if we’re going to have little girls (I know they’re young women but they’re SO young!) baring their bottoms to the world then the male gymnasts should have to do all their gymnastics in shorts. Equal opportunity! (And no, I don’t especially want to see young male bits and bobs bobbing around in the gym.)

Or, on a more serious note, the female gymnasts should dress more like the female swimmers.