Has anybody done this before? How much did it cost? Was it done by a tack shop or an independent fitter?
Also any suggestion of tack shop/fitters that could do it or can at least adjust flocking (in a different saddle) in the MI/IN area would be appreciated. 
Not Cair, but I know someone who had their Flair panels (DK saddle that kept leaking!) switched out. I think she paid $350, independent saddle fitter did it.
Honestly to reflock, youāre paying more than a Bates/Wintec saddle is worth. Itās usually about $200-400 to reflock a saddle.
At that point, Iād be inclined to buy a wool flocked saddle.
Well, the brand seems to work really well for my horse, and I have tried a lot of brands on her. This is one of their older saddles which I feel are a much better quality than their newer stuff. Its the Bates buffalo leather dressage saddle.
Iāve had a Bates Cair for years and love it. It is extra long in the flap. IF it ever leaked I might get it flocked with wool, but whatever the cost, it is part of the cost of saddle wear, plus some for the change-over.
This saddle fits all my horses and Iāve never had a sore back, but replacing the Cair might lead to more trouble than it is worth from what I read on line. I colud not buy a new saddle for $3-400.00.
Trick is finding the saddler to do the job.
[QUOTE=Draftmare;8415399]
Well, the brand seems to work really well for my horse, and I have tried a lot of brands on her. This is one of their older saddles which I feel are a much better quality than their newer stuff. Its the Bates buffalo leather dressage saddle.[/QUOTE]
But see, something must not be working for this horse if you are considering changing from CAIR to wool ā or, maybe that is what works with this horse and changing to wool would negate that.
Two different species - Iād make sure your horse can tolerate a wool saddle first if heās going so well in the CAIR.
But, if I am frank, there is nothing unique or wonderful about the construction of Bates saddles that is not able to be replicated (or already available) in just about all leather saddles out there.
Iāve done this on a number of saddles. The Bates saddles are very easy to work with and results have been excellent. If you know the saddle works for your horse I canāt think of any reason not to do it. You certainly will not get another saddle for what it would cost you to convert to wool.
I have an older Bates Caprilli and had it changed from CAIR to wool when the air bags finally leaked. The panels were generous enough that there was plenty of room to flock properly. The cost was a little less than $300.
I was (and am) very pleased with the results. The saddle is an oldie-but-goody (and looks fantastic for its age) - well made and comfortable for both me and the horse.
I did this with my old Wintec Pro.
All the CAIR system is are big air bladders. Honestly, I think they suck, and Iāve never worked with a reputable saddle fitter who liked them.
I used a local woman who is primarily a dressage instructor but also a certified saddle fitter. She did it for me for something like $200. Worth every penny.
I swapped CAIR to wool on a couple Wintec saddles. I donāt remember the cost but it was well worth it. My saddle fitter did it for me. From what I understand, it does void the warranty, but since I prefer wool to CAIR that wasnāt an issue.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8415421]
But see, something must not be working for this horse if you are considering changing from CAIR to wool ā or, maybe that is what works with this horse and changing to wool would negate that.
Two different species - Iād make sure your horse can tolerate a wool saddle first if heās going so well in the CAIR.
But, if I am frank, there is nothing unique or wonderful about the construction of Bates saddles that is not able to be replicated (or already available) in just about all leather saddles out there.[/QUOTE]
Beowulf,
Youād be surprisedā¦ I use an independent saddle fitter who loves loves the old Bates/Wintec saddles. Not the new ones, but the old ones. Apparently, there have been many modifications to the tree that sheās not so fond of, and sheās also not so fond of changes to the company. I digress.
I also LOVED the original Isabel saddles but dislike the current ones. They fit me and my horse so well (confirmed by an Albion and a County fitter I paid to evaluate my saddle) and I rode in one for about 10 years. Specifically, they had a narrow twist, a flat seat with a centered balance point, a narrower, slightly rounded cantle area that and put your butt around-not across-your horse, really put you in contact with the horseās back, a straighter flap with smaller moveable knee rolls, a tree that fit more horses better, etc. If I could find an old buffalo skin Bates Isabell with a good tree, Iād be tempted to pull out the CAIR panels and reflock it, too. There were issues with the original CAIR panels, which could deflate unevenly and lead to issues. I sold mine on Ebay and I could kick myself now, Iāve yet to find a saddle I liked riding in as much as that one. oh well! And it was cheap!!!
I still have a 15+ year old original Wintec jumping saddle and I pulled it out earlier in the year so my saddle fitter could check the fit on my horse. She was so delighted to see it, and pointed out how well these old saddles fit horses and how the newer ones (newer Bates/Wintec) donāt as much. She said it fit him very well, as expected. Since sheās independent and not trying to sell me a saddle, I take her word for things. Sheās very well respected in my area.
I was going to have that done to mine. Expensive! I ended up finding a woman who knew about the saddles and she was able to use the easy change riser system that Bates makes now to adjust it to fit him perfectly. I have an older model that was made before the rider system but it still worked to adjust my saddle. Which model do you have? I have the caprilli dressage. Love it now!
ive done it twice and it worked out perfectly, no issues.
it cost me Ā£50 each time here in the UK
I have done many and I charge the same as a complete re-flock. $200 The old saddles are more horse friendly than the new ones.
I have found a fitter up here (in B.C.) who will change the Cair to wool for C$400.00 so that is good to know if ever I need it. My Bates puts my leg in a good and easy position for me.
I had it done on an older bates for $320 and it was worth every penny-I still use this saddle 9 years later! A re flocking and flocking is really a normal job for most saddlers/fitters.
To those that are saying to just buy a new saddleā¦you really lost the point here. Why spend $2-4000 for a $3-500 fix, endure the break in time for you AND your horse when the OP knows this saddle worksā¦just because of the name brand
[QUOTE=beowulf;8415421]
But see, something must not be working for this horse if you are considering changing from CAIR to wool ā or, maybe that is what works with this horse and changing to wool would negate that.
Two different species - Iād make sure your horse can tolerate a wool saddle first if heās going so well in the CAIR.
But, if I am frank, there is nothing unique or wonderful about the construction of Bates saddles that is not able to be replicated (or already available) in just about all leather saddles out there.[/QUOTE]
I guess it is a matter of preferences. Personally I have always been happy with my Wintec saddles. I have never had a Bates, and have always coveted the buffalo leather dressage, just could never find one reasonably priced for sale. I think that they are great saddles for those of us that canāt drop $3000 on a saddle.
I want to get the CAIR changed over because I have never been a huge fan of the idea. I much prefer wool flocked. I wasnāt going to turn down a saddle with the right seat size in my price range just because it had CAIR though. For $200-300 I think it is totally reasonable.
[QUOTE=melhorse;8416697]
I had it done on an older bates for $320 and it was worth every penny-I still use this saddle 9 years later! A re flocking and flocking is really a normal job for most saddlers/fitters.
To those that are saying to just buy a new saddleā¦you really lost the point here. Why spend $2-4000 for a $3-500 fix, endure the break in time for you AND your horse when the OP knows this saddle worksā¦just because of the name brand[/QUOTE]
No offense but I think you are missing the point - we can assume one of the reasons WHY the saddle works for OPās horse is because itās CAIR paneledā¦ What if it doesnāt work? OP now has a saddle with very little value that she canāt resell easily ā people are usually attracted to Wintec/Bates for the CAIR and if the CAIR is gone, well, itād be a hard resell.
No one was telling the OP to drop $4k into a new saddle. But, itād be within the realm of reason to wonder if the OPās horse would do well in wool since she said āthis is really the only saddle that has worked for himā earlier.
Iād be skeptic, and would be in the try-it-before-you buy it camp - as in, try a wool saddle before you spend money taking the CAIR out of the only saddle that youāve found works for him.
I canāt drop 3k on a saddle either, but IME, having had first hand experience with Wintec/Bates, the CAIR either makes or breaks the horse and itās usually the latter. While I donāt love Bates (which is Wintec) the idea is a good one, just poorly executed.
I do not usually disagree with you Beowulf, but since I have had the Cair for many years on many horses, I would be interested in facts or figures that the Bates Cair āmakes or breaks a horse and it is usually the latterā. It is possible that the Bates marketing and service are a little lacking from what I read.
[QUOTE=Foxtrotās;8418712]
I do not usually disagree with you Beowulf, but since I have had the Cair for many years on many horses, I would be interested in facts or figures that the Bates Cair āmakes or breaks a horse and it is usually the latterā. It is possible that the Bates marketing and service are a little lacking from what I read.[/QUOTE]
Rather than type up a huge long post here and sully what is a legitimate question from the OP, I will find the link to a thread where I expressed my experience and opinions on the matter:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?472788-CAIR-panels-open-cell-foam-a-good-thing-right
a few posts on the first page go in, but bold in post#22 is the most important part.
My experience has been so far that CAIR works well for a select few. And for those few it is a godsend. But for the rest, it isnāt a solution and often makes the problem worse.
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