Switching to Barefoot and Xrays

[JB]

@danacat

I think the best thing you can do for a horse when going barefoot for the first time, is to pull shoes towards the end or middle of the shoeing cycle – say 3+ weeks in – and then don’t trim the foot at all. Just pull the shoes and see how the horse does. The extra growth can go a long way towards helping horses acclimate.

I agree mostly I agree with the timing and the not trimming, but I would at least roll the wall a bit - easier breakover, less chipping. But, it does depend on the footing - that won’t make much of a difference at all if the pasture is squishy, or he’s in a sand dry lot.

As for taking radiographs, I feel this is only worthwhile if horse has or had previous issues – like thin soles or poor hoofwall attachment due to laminitic episodes or bone loss from fractured/chipped coffin bone, etc.

Agree - in most cases, they are a nice to have, just not necessary at least in the beginning.

I think it all depends on the general health of a horse’s feet to begin with. This will help determine if going barefoot is the answer. Or not.

THIS is where most people, farriers included, fail the horse. Ok, maybe not most, but sure as heck a lot. So many horses don’t have healthy feet, and while it CAN be done, taking the unhealthy foot out of shoes and make it healthy, most owners aren’t in a position to do that, from a time and/or management perspective. One reason I delayed getting shoes off the real JB was because at the time, he was stalled 20 hours a day, and that wouldn’t have been conducive to helping change his feet even with good trimming. Once we moved, and he was increasing his turnout, it was a perfect time and he was doing very well.

[danacat]

@JB

So many horses don’t have healthy feet, and while it CAN be done, taking the unhealthy foot out of shoes and make it healthy, most owners aren’t in a position to do that, from a time and/or management perspective. One reason I delayed getting shoes off the real JB was because at the time, he was stalled 20 hours a day, and that wouldn’t have been conducive to helping change his feet even with good trimming. Once we moved, and he was increasing his turnout, it was a perfect time and he was doing very well.

My horses are all at home, so big YES – ^^^^ good point! — to being able to full-time manage the transition. And increased turn-out for that healing circulation is also key – not everyone has the optimum situation. Agreed.

[Guilherme]

@danacat

My horses are all at home, so big YES – ^^^^ good point! — to being able to full-time manage the transition. And increased turn-out for that healing circulation is also key – not everyone has the optimum situation. Agreed.

The idea of pulling shoes mid-cycle is a good one! I’d also get the foot “dressed up” to eliminate any sharp edges.

Keeping horses in a good “horse pasture” is also a good idea. In our experiments with shoes vs. barefoot we have some ideal pastures (good forage, rolling ground, natural water meaning soft areas, some rocky ground, trees for shade, etc.). And even at this I can’t take our working horses out of shoes. (

I don’t endorse “barefoot trimmers” as they are like a golfer with only one club in their bag. By definition they cannot care for but a single aspect of hoof care, a trim. If that trim needs protecting then the owner has to go somewhere else for help (and even worse if you have genuine hoof pathology). For me that makes this problem complex. I prefer simple. If complexity is NECESSARY (from the point of view of equine need not human need to follow an outside philosophy) then
I’ll deal with, and pay for, complexity. Otherwise I’m just spending money to no good end.

G.

[JB]

Trimmers absolutely have more tools at their disposal than just trimming. Many are well-versed in boots, and I know quite a few who also do glue-on shoes (which does not make them a farrier) and/or casting, all of which can help a lot of feet either in the transition, or give them the tools to be happy and sound for work, while remaining barefoot while standing around.

The use of glue-ons and casting also gives them the tool of pour-in material to help the sole and frog or anything else.

[Bluey]

@JB

Trimmers absolutely have more tools at their disposal than just trimming. Many are well-versed in boots, and I know quite a few who also do glue-on shoes (which does not make them a farrier) and/or casting, all of which can help a lot of feet either in the transition, or give them the tools to be happy and sound for work, while remaining barefoot while standing around.

The use of glue-ons and casting also gives them the tool of pour-in material to help the sole and frog or anything else.

Farriers can use glue-ons, casts, boots just fine also, the rare time a horse can’t be helped for protection by just nailing shoes on, which is still the best way to give a horse protection and traction when barefoot is not doing that without the horse being uncomfortable getting around.

In our area practically all that work on horse’s feet are farriers, rare to have a barefoot trimmer around here.
Funny, most horses are kept barefoot, by those farriers.
Only when working hard or competing are they shod, some never in their lives.

[JB]

@Bluey

Farriers can use glue-ons, casts, boots just fine also,

Absolutely. I was only speaking to Guilherme’s statement that "I don’t endorse “barefoot trimmers” as they are like a golfer with only one club in their bag. By definition they cannot care for but a single aspect of hoof care, a trim. "

Though I will say that IME, a larger % of trimmers are more familiar with boots and fitting and how to use them to their best advantage, as well as casting, than farriers are, simply because they have gotten more creative when owners don’t want shoes (or the trimmer is very anti-shoe). But for sure, there are farriers who are very competent at one or the other or both

In our area practically all that work on horse’s feet are farriers, rare to have a barefoot trimmer around here.
Funny, most horses are kept barefoot, by those farriers.
Only when working hard or competing are they shod, some never in their lives.

There are definitely many fewer trimmers than farriers, so most places are going to have fewer if any trimmers.

[Guilherme]

@JB

Trimmers absolutely have more tools at their disposal than just trimming. Many are well-versed in boots, and I know quite a few who also do glue-on shoes (which does not make them a farrier) and/or casting, all of which can help a lot of feet either in the transition, or give them the tools to be happy and sound for work, while remaining barefoot while standing around.

The use of glue-ons and casting also gives them the tool of pour-in material to help the sole and frog or anything else.

Sorry, but I stand by my statement. The trimmers are one dimensional. To argue boots, etc. constitute “second clubs” is, IMO, chimera.

Some may disagree but that’s how I see it.

G.

[danacat]

It could also be argued that the ability to shape and nail on a metal shoe – is a ‘second club’.

Everythng that is done or suggested be done to the foot beforehand: Trimming, balancing – identifying, ascessing and correcting pathologies and more – is what matters. That all-encompassing knowledge of the horse’s hoof (internally and externally) is shared by highly skilled farriers and barefoot specialists alike = why shoes are sometimes recommended by barefoot trimmers as a course of action and why farriers will sometimes recommend a horse go barefoot.

My farrier and my barefoot specialist who’s not just a trimmer; she would take great offense to that label – haved worked on my horses in synergy to solve problems. They both respect the skills and knowledge of the other. It’s not about boots, or types of shoes or who does what – it’s about achieving as healthy a foot as possible.

[JB]

The point is, there are plenty of trimmers who have more tools in their box than just nippers, knives and rasps. Many don’t. But many do. There are plenty of farriers who don’t know how to anything more than nail on stock shoes.

By all means if your farrier can properly trim to leave a foot bare, that is the ideal, since if the horse needs shoes again, you’re not changing professionals every 6 months. You’d be surprised how many farriers can’t get a foot healthy enough to go barefoot, or trim to not have shoes on.

[Bluey]

@JB

The point is, there are plenty of trimmers who have more tools in their box than just nippers, knives and rasps. Many don’t. But many do. There are plenty of farriers who don’t know how to anything more than nail on stock shoes.

By all means if your farrier can properly trim to leave a foot bare, that is the ideal, since if the horse needs shoes again, you’re not changing professionals every 6 months. You’d be surprised how many farriers can’t get a foot healthy enough to go barefoot, or trim to not have shoes on.

Sorry, that bolded doesn’t make sense.
I disagree that farriers “don’t know more than nail on shoes”?

All farriers have many barefoot clients that do just fine.
Farriers don’t “just nail on shoes”?

If a farrier does a bad job trimming is because it is a bad farrier.

Seems that some that only do barefoot trimming, good or bad, don’t know how to shoe.

[JB]

@Bluey

Sorry, that bolded doesn’t make sense.

There are farriers who can do nothing more than take a shoe out of a box and nail it to the foot. Too big, too small, wrong shape, they are out there doing that.

I disagree that farriers “don’t know more than nail on shoes”?

I didn’t say all. But there are absolutely some who only do that - whether it’s all they know because they read a book, bought tools, and declared themselves a farrier, or that’s all they care to do, I don’t know. But they are out there.

All farriers have many barefoot clients that do just fine.

Of course - I had one.

Farriers don’t “just nail on shoes”?

I didn’t say they did

If a farrier does a bad job trimming is because it is a bad farrier.

Agreed! That’s my point - if a farrier cannot keep a horse barefoot, healthy feet, able to do his job, he is not a competent (enough) farrier. I say that all the time. I hear complaints ALL the time about someone’s farrier trimming a bare foot as if he’s going to put a shoe on - flat surface, removes sole as if a shoe was going to put pressure on it, doesn’t roll the walls. They are out there. I’d never use one of those.

Seems that some that only do barefoot trimming, good or bad, don’t know how to shoe.

Well of course - no trimmer is a farrier, and most trimmers don’t even do glue-on shoes. I know farriers who got out of the farriery business to become “just” a trimmer. I know many trimmers who have no desire to learn how to use metal shoes but are very competent trimmers for the horses they serve.

[Posting_Trot]

I would like to see pictures of the OP’s horse’s hooves.

I too have had a bad experience with a farrier who, with my previous horse, basically did a poor job of trimming before applying the shoes. He helped to create a long toe-underrun heel problem that my horse did not have before this farrier started working on her, and at the time I was too willing to defer to his supposed expertise.

It took quite a while with another farrier for a better trim to emerge, although her feet remained a work in progress. But along the way it also involved corrective shoeing, pour-in pads, etc. Then, the mare managed to pull off a front shoe (twice) and take a big chunk of hoof with it. When the attempts to re-build the hoof also came off in chunks we ended up going barefoot (initially) because the farrier wasn’t optimistic about doing anything else. (Actually she wasn’t optimistic about going barefoot either, really).

Hoof boots made a big difference. The horse was already a bit sore from the trauma of the hoof being ripped up, and the boots made her way more comfortable.

She had to wear the boots in turn out for the next week; and then she wore them for all riding for the next several months. But ultimately she was comfortable being barefoot for the next ten years of her life. I still put her in front boots for the rocky trails we have around here, but she was barefoot otherwise and she was fine.

She was a TB mare, who I’ve posted about a lot. She had issues with recurring lyme disease, and ultimately had to be euthanized at 23 when she colicked.

[kande04]

@Postandrails

Yes, you’re right. There are definitely horses who don’t cope without shoes. I find it difficult to articulate why the whole “callous” thing bugs me. I guess I’m not sure whether I believe in it.

I think there may be something to the toe callous, but more importantly, I think there may be a lot to the degree of conditioning (thickness, density) of the frog and digital cushion. They probably go together, but I’ve been looking at pix of barefoot hundred mile endurance horses and the back of the hoof does seem to be very well developed.

I shoe, I trim (like to go to clinics on both) talk to a lot of trimmers and farriers, and some farriers don’t have their first clue about nutrition, or conditioning a hoof, or hoof boots, or toe callouses. And why would they, because if the horse is barefoot and gets ouchy they just nail shoes on.

My experience has been that barefoot trimmers tend to be much more tuned into nutrition, footing, movement, and hoof boots, because they don’t want to just slap shoes on so that the owners can continue to use the horse even though he’s not adequately conditioned to do the job they want him to do. IOW, they want owners to step up and do what they can to benefit their horses, and are often frustrated when they won’t.

There are plenty of exceptions of course, but that’s my general impression of those with whom I discuss such things.

[anon6003733]

I want to add that the most common problem I have seen with SOME trimmers is that they take off too much, particularly in the initial phases. I don’t know if it’s because they are trying to get the perfect looking foot right out of the gate but the first priority should be minimizing discomfort to the horse. Any other minor issues can be improved upon slowly over time.

[twelvebelles]

OP, I have a barefoot horse. He was barefoot and jumping 3’ when I got him, and I kept him like that because he was comfortable in his work and turnout. It’s mostly due to good genetics and requires very little extra management. I’d talk to your farrier about your horse’s hoof attributes (natural angles, strength, growth, hardness, wear patterns, etc.) and how they generally grow out between cycles and plan around those answers.

My horse has the following key hoof attributes that I think allow us to remain comfortably barefoot: 1) He’s got good hoof mass relative to his body, 2) he does not have any material defects that need correction, like a club foot, underrun heels or flares, 3) all four hooves wear down pretty evenly and maintain their angles between cycles, 4) his hooves are naturally tough (no supplements needed) and not prone to chipping or abscesses, regardless of season/weather and 5) he travels sound on all types of surfaces all of the time. Even with all this excellent genetics, I still religiously use Keratex hoof hardener 1-2x a week on his soles as a precaution, I always have thrush buster on hand for around his frog in wet weather, and he gets trimmed every 5 weeks on the dot.

[TWH_Girl]

Hmmmm…why no response from OP?

[Sansena]

Haven’t read through and I’m quite certain this has been mentioned before hand… but if ANYONE tells you your horse is most definitely going to be sore after they “work on their feet” that’s your signal, as a concerned and caring owner to run for the g-- d@mned hills.

There is NO reason in gods green earth for someone to deliberately sore a horse in the hopes of achieving some sort of pie in the sky, if-only-in-a-perfect-world goal of Barefoot All The Time For All.

Pet peeve of mine. I hope your horse manages the transition well enough but if after several weeks (no, not several trimming cycles) he’s still sore, then put the shoes back on him. He’s telling you something. Listen.

[JB]

I don’t think most farriers/trimmers who warn about soreness, are doing it deliberately. I think in most cases where the horse IS sore, they simply don’t know how to do better. The farrier/trimmer who takes a horse out of shoes and does full blown trim as if he’s been barefoot his whole life, doesn’t intent to make the horse sore, he just has no idea how to make the transition a lot easier.

I think everyone pulling shoes should absolutely warn the owner the horse might be sore, but then also walk through the steps they will take to help minimize it, talk about boots, turnout, frequency of trimming, and anything else pertinent to the situation.

[S1969]

@TWH Girl

Hmmmm…why no response from OP?

Probably because the real reason many people want to stop shoeing their horse is because barefoot is cheaper. And they have been told that after a “normal period of being sore” the horse will “toughen up” and be fine. But most people didn’t say that.

I’d like to stop shoeing my mare. I can afford it but it’s a pain in the rear, especially when it’s -10F. Unfortunately, it’s not what is best for her, so I suck it up.

[kande04]

@anon6003733

PS I want to add that the most common problem I have seen with SOME trimmers is that they take off too much, particularly in the initial phases. I don’t know if it’s because they are trying to get the perfect looking foot right out of the gate but the first priority should be minimizing discomfort to the horse. Any other minor issues can be improved upon slowly over time.

This, with both farriers and trimmers. They want the hoof capsule to look good, because that’s what most people are going to notice and then use to judge the job they did. The problem is that a lot of the critics can only see if the outer hoof wall is smooth, and haven’t their first clue about basic hoof anatomy.

I suspect that most would like to be able to use their horse the way they want without having to go to the extra trouble to keep shoes on him. But in many cases going barefoot would require extra work from them, and often less work for their horses, or at least less work on the surfaces that they prefer to ride on. So I agree that if someone is going to continue to use their horse as if he was still comfortable after the shoes are pulled, and he’s not, then for his sake, keep him shod.