Syndication for the "average" person

Building my own company, I think the term/idea of “B” shares is short for “bullshit” shares. Why would anybody with money to invest do it with no return nor potential of control? It’s like buy shares of Apple with no chance to ever sell or get a return. In my case, when the company attracts the big investor, we will change the management structure to give them greater control. The same goes with horses.

I think it really an indicator of how uneducated riders and managers of the industry are when the business model consists of folks begging for money. “Please, mum, a penny for my pony?”

Sponsored riders, owner shares, providing a return on investment, providing a tax loss, etc. is the “solid” economic model allowable in horses.

And, truthfully, a person who competes at the *** level, going to Europe, etc. is NOT average. Right there is a warning, to me, to not invest. This is a rider with insufficient confidence in their business. Like others already said, people put money with the top, most confident and successful athletes who also have a solid business (sales, students, marketing etc.).

[QUOTE=SuperEventer;7038865]

I am trying to poll people here and on FB to gauge interest, etc.
So,

  1. Would anyone even be interested in being involved in a syndication of an up and comer like myself?
  2. What is an “affordable” cost per year for the “average person”?
    Any insight is appreciated. :slight_smile: Thanks![/QUOTE]

Maybe the MORE IMPORTANT questions you should be asking is:

  1. What to I provide to investors?
  2. How do I show that investment in me is a value?

Business in NOT about YOU. It is about those who either buy your product or invest in your ideas. Watch “Sharktank” and see who gets the money and who doesn’t. There are plenty of times where a great idea is destroyed because the person alienates the potential investors. And there are plenty of boring, mundane ideas that get significant investment because the person has researched and developed a solid business plan/model.

You are potentially asking folks who don’t have a lot to spend to give you money. What do they get? Good feelings? A t-shirt? A chance to sit in an owner’s box? You need to answer these sorts of questions. Not them.

And that is what this whole “syndication” idea is about.

[QUOTE=RAyers;7039954]

Like others already said, people put money with the top, most confident and successful athletes.[/QUOTE]

Or people to whom they are related.

OP, you also have a perfect mentor in Bonnie. Why not ask her?

[QUOTE=RAyers;7040008]
Maybe the MORE IMPORTANT questions you should be asking is:

  1. What to I provide to investors?
  2. How do I show that investment in me is a value?

You are potentially asking folks who don’t have a lot to spend to give you money. What do they get? Good feelings? A t-shirt? A chance to sit in an owner’s box? You need to answer these sorts of questions. Not them.

And that is what this whole “syndication” idea is about.[/QUOTE]

I’m not in the eventing world at all. I do know some very average people who have expressed interest in doing something like this outside of on track TBs. To them being able to say to their middle class coworkers that they were “going to Rolex” or “going to Louisville” for the weekend to see “their” horse for a few hundred a month, vice the $1k+ normal owners pay, would be great. Just paying you that money, w/o any sort of return, just out of the goodness of their heart - not so much.

These people aren’t horse people per se, so giving $$ to a rescue isn’t interesting to them in the least.

I agree that it may be more like a non-profit. I am the “slightly above average” horseperson in that (like JER), I have a relatively well-paying job. But the job is my only money. There is no family money, big investments, etc. I also have my own horses and event pretty regularly, so that costs a chunk, but I currently belong to 2 syndicates and sponsor another horse as well as owning a horse being ridden by an up and coming rider. I do think it is worth asking the sponsors why they do it and what they get out of it (and I’m not sure those things vary that much for the wealthy versus the average person). I would agree that if you are just trying to go the lots of people and tax deductible donations route, I would go with more of a Run Henny Run fan club model. I chose to buy into horses because it was another way of being yet more involved with the sport I love. I started as a rider, added volunteering, then becoming an official and now an “owner”. PRO has done a great job of acknowledging as “owners” those of us that don’t fully own the big time horses, and for me - the things I get are priceless. They have included course walk with Boyd Martin, Jock Paget, Dorothy Crowell and Hilda Donahue at Rolex, a pass into stabling at Rolex and Fair Hill, getting to hand graze one of the Boyd Martin string at Jersey, being in the 10 minute box at the Plantation CIC, getting to post facebook updates about “my boys”, hearing via text how things went to get the score I see on live scoring and I’m sure much more in the future.

The other piece is how sponsors select the horses/riders they choose to sponsor. While my contributions are tied to specific horses (which is part of the fun for me), I definitely consider the rider at least as much. One rider, I’ve known since she was 12. I actually helped coach her at events 10 years ago. Another is the assistant at my barn. Same deal, I know her, respect how hard she works and am happy to help in a small way. The other rider is someone I’ve trained with periodically. I’ve always admired her horsemanship and her relationship with many OTTBs, although the horse I have a syndicate share of is not one. One that I was prepared to buy into, but ended up not happening was Running Order. In his case, I loved the horse’s story, but also know Doug and was comfortable contributing to a horse he was riding.

I would be unlikely to join a syndicate for a horse not close by. Part of the fun is seeing them (and seeing their riders on other horses) out and about on a regular basis. Sally is using three levels to syndicate Ideal Contini which you can see here: http://sallycousins.com/sce-idealcontinisyndicate.html. I think this can be helpful so there is some variation. Here is a model that one of Danny Warrington’s owner used (more of a fan club model) http://www.classicozeventing.com/about_Spnosorship.html.

In general, you need to be creative, approach the people with whom you have a relationship first and build support and interest in your horse and your program. You also need to be honest about where you are likely to get and so what your supporters will get. I’m interested in horses and people that can get to the top events, but don’t care much about team membership (Olympics, WEG, etc). Others may feel very differently.

I don’t have any advice on the syndicate, but I own horse for my friend who wants to get in to the upper levels. She already has my money for that, but she recently did something that perked me up to give her more money outside of the horse I bought for her. She wants to go to two clinics this summer (not on my horse) for which she set up a “donation” pool. There are 5 levels of $$ you can give and each comes with a package of items from her sponsors. They are good items too - a $500 donation will get you 2 sets of custom standards, 2 free lessons, and a saddle pad (with her logo on it). That stuff makes it worth giving her $500, and they directly or indirectly benefit her. If you have jumps and like her style, you might want her to come to you to teach and the saddle pad is free advertising, The levels are $50, $150, $250, $300, $500. To me, this is a more sustainable funding method for competitions, etc. if used in conjunction with a fan club.

FWIW, I personally would never buy into something where I didn’t get a piece of the horse - that is the magic for me. I can go out and groom my horse, set jumps for my rider, take videos etc, while she takes care of the day to day stuff. Definite win for me!!

This has been a fascinating thread overall. I’ve always wondered how ownership v. syndication works out.

As I understand, the traditional model has been ownership: one person (or family) owns one horse and pays for costs associated with that horse as worked out with a specific rider. Will Coleman said in his article this used to cost about $25,000 per year but costs have been going up; he estimated that it would be closer to double that each year today and it will certainly reach that number soon if it hasn’t already.

From what I understand about the way costs are deducted, an owner can choose to create an LLC or another type of small business that is technically what owns the horse; that way the horse’s costs can be considered business expenses (mostly losses, right?) and at least some of them are deductible. (This is how Mitt Romney and his wife own Rafalca, right?)

The new model is then syndication - a group of owners band together, put down an initial investment price (something like the 1/10 equivalent to purchasing the horse), and then pay X amount each year in upkeep. If they choose to leave the syndicate they can sell their “share” of the horse to a new syndicate member, who will agree to the X amount per year on top of the share price.

In both of those models, the benefits to the owner are mostly intangible ones: they help out the sport; they have the prestige/pride/satisfaction of owning a going upper level horse; they have personal access to and a personal relationship with the rider; they presumably receive perks such as VIP tent access at events. Some people have also mentioned additional organizational perks through PRO or the USEA, both of which obviously have a vested interest in supporting major financial backers.

The suggestion of syndicating B shares is then that the shares themselves would be much less expensive than the $2.5k a year I saw suggested for a 1/10 or 1/15 syndicate owner, but the perks would also be much less. Specifically, there would be no actual ownership involved - it would be purely a supporting agreement. So it’s really more like a donation to a rider - like a public radio pledge drive that you’ve agreed to for multiple years.

So that puts it much more in line with the funding model for nonprofits, which is something I actually know a fair bit about. Most halfway competent development directors can raise $30k a year from contributions, sponsors, and some grants. In that case nonprofits are trading goodwill and content for the support of their members/donors.

In which case, maybe a few suggestions, based on the nonprofit model, some of which have already been mentioned:

  • Work out a sponsorship system, with levels, benefits, and agreements and make it clear and comprehensible so that those who give money know what they are receiving in return
  • Communicate early and often, and this is where you can maybe offer some of that content in return. What can you offer for in-person sponsors? What can you offer via the internet? Can you set up a website with a membership system so that people can log in and see a daily video, photograph, training report, event review, or really any kind of small update? The trick here is that you’re selling yourself and your horse: be engaging and charming without being too personal, and make people want to have access to that behind the scenes information. Be consistent and concise and responsive.
  • Find a way to make it tax deductible. It sounds like the USEF already has a model for this.
  • Give people a sense of belonging - don’t just take their money and invest it in the horse. Maintain a relationship and give back to them occasionally, maybe by blogging and featuring some of your sponsors, doing giveaways of event swag, finding a way for people to buy team hats, shirts, etc. and giving them membership cards.

The catch is that all of this takes time. Doing it well will take a lot of time. There will also be trial and error. It might be an interesting puzzle for a working student with a business or nonprofit management background to solve and work on to get the first groundwork done, and then you can maintain it afterwards.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I find this fascinating and I’m curious to see where the next steps will go if traditional ownership is vanishing.

[QUOTE=kerlin;7040296]

From what I understand about the way costs are deducted, an owner can choose to create an LLC or another type of small business that is technically what owns the horse; that way the horse’s costs can be considered business expenses (mostly losses, right?) and at least some of them are deductible. (This is how Mitt Romney and his wife own Rafalca, right [/QUOTE]

On the whole that is correct, except the IRS frowns on losses for horse owners, so it has to be run as a business vs a hobby with clear intent to show a profit. Most owners of horses then, also have a farm or horses to sell or breeding operations which try to make a profit to offset the losses of a horse that one is campaigning. As our accountant says " it has to pass the red face test."

I’m failing to see how this would be classified as a non-profit and tax deductible. I think that would send up a lot of red flags to the IRS.

I think the very notion of syndication for the “average person” just won’t fly. As a member of the “average people” club, I can tell you my extra $ is going to support my own riding goals, my child’s college fund, the bathroom remodel we desperately need, last year’s new roof, a long overdue vacation, etc…

The average person does not purchase shares in horse syndicates. The average person donates $20-50 to Relay For Life, NPR, various youth and animal organizations, etc.

If you want to appeal to the average person, look at what Elissa Wallace has done. Blog like crazy, post frequent videos and get enough people WATCHING what you’re doing that you can attract a sponsor to help offset your costs. Use the power of social media. Maybe you could set up a “special subscribers” area where people who have donated a little bit get access to additional content/videos/etc. Get really good at writing letters and promoting yourself to the people and corporations who DO have the money to support a horse at this level.

Perhaps you can set up an “owner for a day” type of experience at FEI level competitions where people can pay a fee and get the “owner’s experience” for one show - give them the owner’s wrist bands for stabling access and make time to schmooze with them one on one, maybe take them on a course walk, etc.

At the 2005 annual USEA meeting, one of the side meetings/classes was rider funding. John Nunn said don’t come to him asking for money. Come to him with an idea/plan of how his funding of you will ultimately benefit him.

He loved the barely teen aged boy who came in with a bucket cover that promoted BofB. The kid told Nunn he would have the covered bucket prominent at every competition if Nunn would provide some backing. No, the kid didn’t do that much, BUT the kid understood it is a 2-way street. The kid had a plan to recognize BofB’s support before he asked for the support.

Look at how you can recognize any supporters and then present yourself as someone who will treat their support with respect. Like someone else said, average is the wrong title. Once you hit 2* level the air starts getting thin. 3 and 4* levels is BNR level. Own and wear the title without letting it go to your head.
Like Wofford’s comment-it is really simple, just not easy.

I really appreciate everyone’s input.

I am definitely going to go the route of selling ownership shares of my horse, rather than B Shares. It definitely makes more sense. I WANT people to be involved. I want to offer owners special privileges for sure.

I do promote myself and my horse a lot with social media. I am also a writer for EN. I write about our journey together as well as many other things.

I am bringing along quite a few sales horses on top of teaching, etc. I love retraining OTTB’s and am actually one of the trainers selected for the Retired Racehorse Training Project’s Thoroughbred Makeover.

I feel that Bug has a very large fan base, according to FB and people who come up to me at shows. I was hoping to be able to allow these people a chance to buy in to him by making the fees more affordable for syndication. However, after hearing what all of you have said, I get it. Those that don’t have a lot of money are going to put it toward their own horses. Understood. I don’t blame them!

[QUOTE=RAyers;7039954]
Building my own company, I think the term/idea of “B” shares is short for “bullshit” shares. Why would anybody with money to invest do it with no return nor potential of control? It’s like buy shares of Apple with no chance to ever sell or get a return. In my case, when the company attracts the big investor, we will change the management structure to give them greater control. The same goes with horses.

I think it really an indicator of how uneducated riders and managers of the industry are when the business model consists of folks begging for money. “Please, mum, a penny for my pony?”

Sponsored riders, owner shares, providing a return on investment, providing a tax loss, etc. is the “solid” economic model allowable in horses.

And, truthfully, a person who competes at the *** level, going to Europe, etc. is NOT average. Right there is a warning, to me, to not invest. This is a rider with insufficient confidence in their business. Like others already said, people put money with the top, most confident and successful athletes who also have a solid business (sales, students, marketing etc.).[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I am not someone who toots my own horn. Is my horse a phenomenal athlete and a once in a lifetime horse? Hell yes! Is he average? Not in the least. Anyone who has seen Bug jump can say he isn’t average.

Maybe I don’t think I’m the best in the world, but I think my horse and I have what it takes to do well at the upper levels. I don’t want to be the egotistical rider who thinks they have nothing to learn. I have everything to learn, and Bug has so much to teach me.

If the syndicate doesn’t work, I will just keep on keeping on. I merely wanted to try to include as many people in my amazing horse’s journey as I could. Everyone has given me a lot to think about, and I really appreciate it.

[QUOTE=SLR;7040017]
Or people to whom they are related.

OP, you also have a perfect mentor in Bonnie. Why not ask her?[/QUOTE]

Yes, Bonnie is AMAZING. She has been very helpful in everything that I do. I have so much to learn from her! Unfortunately, she has never syndicated a horse, so I am figuring all of this out with the help of the Owner’s Task Force.

I am not completely sold on syndicating, but as I said, I will sell ownership shares if I do.

[QUOTE=SuperEventer;7040709]

I do promote myself and my horse a lot with social media. [/QUOTE]

Did I miss something? Are you twins, one of whom is publicity shy and one of whom isn’t?

You can’t be both of the above – will the real SuperEventer please stand up?

:slight_smile:

hahaha Okay, well, I like to promote my horse with social media. You caught me. I really have multiple personalities.

Honestly, though, I try to promote myself…without sounding like an egomaniac. If you read my posts, they’re usually just about the horses. Mostly Bug. He is the superstar.

I think the original author means she likes to write and promote Bug, maybe less so herself as a rider. I get it.

I have an amazing pony with a very capable but with an almost no name rider on her. The pony is 14.3 and completed a CCI* this spring. I promote the heck out of the pony, but my rider gets uncomfortable with a lot of promotion for herself. Trust me, I rode the pony thru training level but this rider can take the pony all the way, something I would never attempt to do. I am slowly trying to promote them as a team, as Leslie Law and Debbie Stephens feel it is their partnership that will take them to advanced.

I don’t have the funding to fully support them on this journey, but as I own a mare I hope to offer eggs or embryos to sponsors and or syndicate owners.

Great ideas so far and good luck Jess!

It is a terribly hard lifestyle. We can all name people who have had to sell their up and comer to enable them to keep going.

How close are you to being named to a Team?

“Ask what you can do for the sponsor, not what they can do for you”.

Mark Todd sold his dairy farm to do his sport… :frowning:

Cannot help, but best wishes – I know what you are going trough, truly!

If you can hunt down pwynnnorman, I’m sure that would be a very interesting and educational discussion. If you search here, you might find some great stuff too, from the days before Teddy went to Karen O’Connor.

[QUOTE=chunky munky;7039414]
Will Coleman. Nice kid, talented rider. Family has owned some of the most beautiful horse farms in VA. He may be now looking to get people to buy horses, form syndicates, etc., but up to this point has had very strong family financial support. Don’t think I would look there for ground roots advice.[/QUOTE]
Will is also an incredibly intelligent guy (and if you can’t figure that out reading his blog entry, then you’re not paying attention). Just because he has family financial backing (and I don’t know how truly true that is at this point in his career…maybe as a YR and a college kid, but good chance not so much now) does not mean he can’t see and understand and think through the problems EVERYONE faces. Brains goes a long way. And he’s got a big one.

FWIW, I have grown ever increasingly weary of sharing my horse via syndicate or some of the “I’ll do X if you do Y” type deals. After some of the lawsuits that have occurred over the last few years, I don’t ever want to have to live through that. I’ve also lived through some smaller debacles and it just isn’t fun. I rather figure out how to make it work on my own dime, at this point.