Talk to me about EPM antibodies

[OverandOnward]

@shadesofbay3

so you said you DON’T let it impact your decision? i understand of course that everyone’s risk tolerance is different

my only uneasiness is how her titers have remained high - keep in mind she was only tested once, and i’m assuming it was the full course of the treatment, but that’s info I don’t have yet

Just me, based on my own experience – I would already have sent her home from the trial, with a ‘thanks but no’.

No way would I buy a horse with repeatedly high readings.

My OTTB gelding who was treated twice for EPM came close to full retirement when the first treatment was slow to see results. When he couldn’t seem to remember how his feet were supposed to coordinate smoothly with each other. I have lost a lot of riding time to the periods when he isn’t so coordinated. And, the problems came back later, after the first treatment. There is no guarantee that he’ll continue to stay symptom free. Or that he’ll be able for whatever riding might otherwise have been some easy fun for him.

@Simkie

cheap horses that usually move fast

This is the thing to note – Simkie’s strategy is one of a short ownership cycle. If the horse has no neuro symptoms at purchase, then even if they have some degree of EPM it is unlikely to be a factor over a short period of time. Possibly Simkie’s buyers aren’t testing for it, so it isn’t a factor in her sales? If I am understanding Simkie’s post correctly.

[Simkie]

@OverandOnward

Possibly Simkie’s buyers aren’t testing for it, so it isn’t a factor in her sales? If I am understanding Simkie’s post correctly.

Huh? As I said above, I am BUYING. I’m not a seller.

When I buy a horse, the first thing I do as an owner is test. I often have the PPE vet pull the blood. As I’ve said, it doesn’t factor in my purchasing decision, but I still want to know ASAP and treat as needed. If I were spending real $$, it would likely feel very different, and it could definitely play into the purchase.

I agree that there are some very heady concerns purchasing a horse with a high, persistent titer. And unfortunately a “clean” neuro exam is not really a green light given the subjectiveness. Neuro stuff can be just so subtle. Horses can compensate very well. Even the patent data for Marquis and Protazil reflects this–success rate drops with blinded review of the post treatment exam.

[OverandOnward]

@Simkie

I buy cheap horses that do not have neuro symptoms and have not been EPM tested. No, I don’t let it influence my purchasing decision, in part because of the time it takes to come back (which is onerous or untenable with cheap horses that usually move fast) and also in that I see little risk in purchasing a horse with no obvious symptoms that has never undergone treatment. I assume I can treat a titer/subtle symptoms. But I sure want to know about it before it becomes apparent.

I think I misunderstood this post. To me sounded like a horse flipper. Not necessarily a bad thing. I misinterpreted that the “cheap horses” (plural) are in and out of your ownership fast. Now I think that what you meant was the you have to decide and buy fast, before someone else buys the cheap horse. However many horses you are talking about buying.

[OverandOnward]

@Simkie

A horse with a stubborn titer is a whole different ballgame. You KNOW you might not be able to treat this horse. And you don’t really know what that means about future soundness/ability.

This I very much agree with. A greater likelihood of a long future as a pasture pet than the average horse without a ‘stubborn titer’.

EPM is a horrible condition for a horse. As was mentioned above, we are still in primitive times re diagnosis and treatment. And long-term prognosis and recovery. And awareness.

[Simkie]

@OverandOnward

Now I think that what you meant was the you have to decide and buy fast, before someone else buys the cheap horse.

Yes.

I didn’t say anything about selling, or flipping horses. I haven’t sold a horse in probably 20 years, lol.

[TwiSedai]

Around here, I feel like most horses would show high titers if you tested, even with no symptoms. I personally know four horses that had to be treated in the last year. Only one isnt back to full work, but she has something else going on they are trying to figure out.

Frankly, if she’s asymptomatic, doing the job you want, and checks all other boxes, I would just put high titers, even if unchanged after treatment, in the “good to know for the future” file. If I was looking, I’d probably buy her, then check her vit E levels, add to her diet if needed, and just keep an eye out for any funky hind end stuff in the future.

[OverandOnward]

The biggest challenge for any horse owner is providing for their future if they do, eventually, end up with permanent changes from EPM.

Could that happened sooner, or later? So far I don’t think that vet medicine is providing too many predictors.