It’s pretty obvious that you don’t like Pit Bulls vacation1, so why are you continuing to waste your time here? This conversation was pretty positive until you posted.
You obviously didn’t read the rest of my post… right after the section you quoted I said:
“I think some Pit Bulls would meet your requirements just fine, some wouldn’t. But then again, MOST breeds wouldn’t fit ALL of those requirements.”
:rolleyes:
There are several good rescues in PA that specialize in Pits. NEPA Availabullies is one that my friend fosters/rescues for. I KNOW they have dogs that would fit your criteria. She has a female right now that is a total lovebug, easy going, gets along with other dogs, not sure about cats (she is fostering and doesn’t have cats).
Sunrays Rescue is another one and also Luzerne County. They’re a little far out but worth checking out.
If you want to PM me about pit bulls, please do so as there is entirely too much to type about them here. I am a Board Member for Atlanta Bully Rescue / Animal Rescue Assistance in Atlanta, Georgia and have been active with the breed for the past thirteen years. 
I am commenting on your below comments on the breed / breed type as a whole versus individual dog:
[QUOTE=SAcres;6222190]
My two major requirements are that the dog must get along with other animals, from dogs, horses, cats, etc, and that he must be able to stay off leash without bolting at every chance he gets.
I’d like a larger sized dog, high energy, and lots of fun. Trainability is also big for me, I don’t want a dog that will “ignore” me all the time. [/QUOTE]
Pit Bulls tend to have a high play drive / tend to become overstimulated in play situations.
Being dog aggressive is considered a breed trait, not a breed fault.
Pit Bulls are highly intelligent and trainable…as long as you figure out WHICH training method works for them otherwise, they are independent and stubborn (which is part of their charm.)
Again, speaking about the breed as a whole versus individual dogs.
Much of the information you find out there on the internet and from persons who have never owned a pit bull is false such as “biting and grinding down” or “jaws locking” or “human aggressive.”
Persons that are responsible pit bull owners or are part of a legitimate rescue organization believe in promoting spaying/neutering of pit bulls, and they will NOT tell you to “run out and get a pit bull.” Instead, we would rather persons become fully aware of what to expect as far as the breed/breed type before making a decision.
P.S. I also attached a photo of our “killer” pit bull 
(certified pet therapy dog, working on her rally title, and a joy to be around…also the most submissive and tolerant dog…and LOVES kids.)
my old dog walker operates a rescue in PA
they work with all breeds but i know she has 6 pit bulls and/or pit bull crosses living with her.
happy tails rescue, you can email them at happytailsrescue@gmail.com
they’re out of morrisville, pa.
after reading posts from vacation
i can’t help but wish that footnotes to sources were required when posting on COTH…
[QUOTE=diffuse01;6232268]
It’s pretty obvious that you don’t like Pit Bulls vacation1, so why are you continuing to waste your time here? This conversation was pretty positive until you posted.[/QUOTE]
Get over yourself. This thread was started by someone asking for input on whether a pit bull would be a good choice for her situation. I offered an opinion, just like you did, and when I looked back a few days later and saw some people had responded to my input with poorly reasoned and dismissive comments, I decided to respond. I do wish that shrieking “Shut up and go away! You’re mean!” wasn’t the go-to response to disagreement by pit bull advocates, but I don’t think that responding to it is wasting my time. I think it’s valuable to present a contrasting POV to your rather more rosy picture of pit bulls.
Oh, right. Because academic rigor is needed to prove anything I said. I’m going to assume you will stipulate that genetics is a reality and does have an effect on behavior.
The only other footnotable items were the Vick dog attack, and the Bad Rap dog mauling.
http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com/2011/08/reflections-on-case-in-pacifica-ca.html
The Best Friends blog, describing how a Vick dog broke out of its kennel and killed another dog; a second Vick dog was also involved.
http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2010/10/11/sad-news-from-dogtown/
Pit bulls advocates, Please remember that “people fear things in proportion to their ignorance of them”. And you can “lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”. So, while we try to educate the ignorant people who know nothing of pit bulls, if they don’t want to learn, they don’t want to learn.
In my experience with pit bull detractors, I find that they have never met a properly socialized pit bull and just know pit bulls through the media. The media would have you believe that these dogs are ticking time bombs when in fact they are not.
I feel pity for those who don’t know a real pit bull. They have no idea what they are missing.
I will admit to being someone that let the ignorance turn into fear. My limited experience with any bully breeds was always positive but I was used to dogs that were the exception to the rule anyway. I’ve always blamed the owners and not the breed but I wasn’t 100% sure one wrong move wouldn’t provoke a PB so I avoided considering them for myself, and now my children.
There was a lovely PB/Basset mix at the shelter last summer whose only fault was to press her nose through the chain link fence and wag her tail like all the other Pitbulls. The rest of the dogs were either cowering, shaking, yapping, barking, growling, hiding or jumping around and saying look at me but the PBs all had the same stance. I didn’t find them as easy to read and that scared me because I didn’t know enough about the breed as a whole.
Now I have a different Basset/PB mix who does the same thing and I find it endearing. And, I can totally see my previous (purebred) Basset standing just like the PBs if he ended up at the shelter but I wouldn’t have read anything into it besides friendliness. Most likely, if I’d known our new dog had some PB in her before she came to my house as a foster, I would have said no because of the kids and we’d have lost out on a great dog, BIG TIME.
None of this is to say that a PB is the right breed for everyone and you should overlook their down sides any more than you should overlook a Border Collie’s drive, but you can’t really say what they are or aren’t until you’ve spent time with one. I’m also a big lover of well trained Bassets and everyone tells me that isn’t possible, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. :lol:
I am not anti-pit/cross BUT I am disheartened by those blaming the mother of the infant child who was killed by the family pet. The baby was in a basinet - and 11 days old - the baby was hardly crawling around and pulling on the dog’s ears. I personally wouldn’t have given it even a thought that my dog would attack a child in a basinet. That was a BAD ACT by that dog. There are no excuses for that behavior.
And yes, I have kids and dogs.
[QUOTE=millerra;6235253]
I personally wouldn’t have given it even a thought that my dog would attack a child in a basinet. [/QUOTE]
Really? You don’t see how a tiny, loud, funny smelling thing that probably very suddenly changed a dogs entire routine could be upsetting?
I’ve never had a dog that I thought would harm anything, but I sure wouldn’t have tested this theory with my baby.
Absolutely NOT. If I thought the dog would take offense to that, I would NOT HAVE THE DOG.
I guess my opinion comes from the idea that the baby did not/could not act in any way malicious towards the dog. The dog went TO the baby and attacked it.
Honestly Millerra? I think there is more to that story than is being told. But that is just a gut reaction. It usually turns out with stories like this that there was some other trigger as well. But, I would also not leave a sleeping baby in a bassinet while I slept and the dog loose. (any dog)
[QUOTE=chancellor2;6235559]
Honestly Millerra? I think there is more to that story than is being told. But that is just a gut reaction. It usually turns out with stories like this that there was some other trigger as well. But, I would also not leave a sleeping baby in a bassinet while I slept and the dog loose. (any dog)[/QUOTE]
I agree, ANY dog. If anyone thinks they can be 100% certain that any dog they are keeping will be 100% trustworthy at all times, no matter what, they are being naive. I would certainly would not keep a dog who had already attacked or shown aggression toward an infant and I really, really feel for that mother and don’t necessarily blame her for being anything other than naive/uneducated, which doesn’t automatically make her a bad mother. When my sons were babies and toddlers, they were never, ever alone, unsupervised, even in a crib or bassinet with our dogs. If I was sleeping, there was a closed door between the baby and any animal…either baby napped with me with the dogs locked out of the room, or the dogs napped with me while the baby slept in his own room with the door closed and a monitor on.
They are DOGS! I think the best of every dog, especially mine, but I’m not going to gamble that something unexpected might happen and put the child at risk.
None of us can possibly know what a dog might take offense to, not being that dog and not being able to have a conversation with them about it.
[QUOTE=chancellor2;6235559]
Honestly Millerra? I think there is more to that story than is being told. But that is just a gut reaction. It usually turns out with stories like this that there was some other trigger as well. But, I would also not leave a sleeping baby in a bassinet while I slept and the dog loose. (any dog)[/QUOTE]
Yeah the mother would have no reason to cover her own @$$ or anything.
It would flat out not occur to me that a child in a crib might be in danger from a dog, either. Good thing I will never have children, I suppose.
My parents certainly did not segregate me from the dogs, nor did any of my brothers segregate their young children from our dogs when they came to visit. A rampant zoo.
Meupatdoes,
I don’t segregate my nieces from my dogs either when we are all awake. But if the adults are sleeping? well, then I would.
[QUOTE=Canaqua;6235630]
They are DOGS! I think the best of every dog, especially mine, but I’m not going to gamble that something unexpected might happen and put the child at risk.
None of us can possibly know what a dog might take offense to, not being that dog and not being able to have a conversation with them about it.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Given a chance, they’re going to chase cute little bunnies out of the yard no matter how much you train them not to in your presence.
They probably have no idea a newborn is a human and an extension of you at first, or that a squeaking baby is not the same as a squeaking toy. If you’ve ever put a toy in a strange place and encouraged your dog to find it, you just gave them the idea to “play” with a baby in a bassinet using their mouth. Because really, I have a hard time believing an otherwise normal family pet would viciously attack a baby. More likely the dog is confused or interested and, unfortunately, a newborn is fragile. Dog gets blamed either way.
Perhaps the trigger was the dog never got to meet the baby and wanted to check it out while the mother was sleeping. That goes back to chasing bunnies when you aren’t looking. Bunnies run fast, though.
[QUOTE=chancellor2;6234488]
Pit bulls advocates, Please remember that “people fear things in proportion to their ignorance of them”. And you can “lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”. So, while we try to educate the ignorant people who know nothing of pit bulls, if they don’t want to learn, they don’t want to learn. In my experience with pit bull detractors, I find that they have never met a properly socialized pit bull and just know pit bulls through the media.[/QUOTE]
Hogwash. At this point, pit bulls have experienced such a horrendous population explosion that urban and rural communities are teeming with them; the rescue culture has led to their importation into the suburbs as well… This is hardly a time when ignorance is breeding fear. Bad experiences are breeding fear.
[QUOTE=vacation1;6237775]
Hogwash. At this point, pit bulls have experienced such a horrendous population explosion that urban and rural communities are teeming with them; the rescue culture has led to their importation into the suburbs as well… This is hardly a time when ignorance is breeding fear. Bad experiences are breeding fear.[/QUOTE]
Well bless your heart…and hogwash right back at you.
I have been bitten by a pit bull…and I have been loved by a pit bull. I’m betting YOU cannot say the same.
[QUOTE=vacation1;6237775]
Hogwash. At this point, pit bulls have experienced such a horrendous population explosion that urban and rural communities are teeming with them.[/QUOTE]
I don’t agree with the “importation into suburbia” as I can show anyone an album from the mid-1920s in dairy country in NY and family members of mine with pit bulls.
However, vacation1 is correct on the population explosion. Generally, pit bulls produce LARGE litters of puppies. When “everyone wants one 'cause they look tough*” the BYBers keep pumping them out. They don’t care where they end up, what temperament they’re producing, what health issues they’re producing, etc. It’s supply and demand, and they know they can make a quick buck selling unknown-origin pit bull puppies for as low as $50/puppy.
There are good dogs.
There are not so good dogs (and it’s not “all in how they’re raised.”)
If you take a dog such as a Golden Retriever and have BYBers pumping out puppies like pit bulls, I can assure you there would be temperament issues, health issues, etc. associated with the breed. Now breed one dog with temperament issues and health issues with another, and you’ve multiplied those issues exponentially.
Going by the breed as a whole, what the OP is looking for, a pit bull may not be the best choice (not saying ALL are like the standard breed type, but the majority are.)
If you go through a reputable bully breed rescue that fully vets their dogs, temperament tests their dogs, puts their dogs in foster home situations to see what home is best for them, then you should not have any issues as if something doesn’t work out, they SHOULD always take them back.
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