Teaching Canter on the Lunge Line

[FjordBCRF]

@Alterration I think our timing was bad the second direction. Going to the left, I could tell he was thinking about it and encouraged him to. He did for maybe a stride and a half then I asked for trot which he came right down to and he got big praises and a treat. The other side, he was more speedy at the trot so I asked more firmly. My guess is he was off balance and pressuring him into it was not the right move.

He is also for reasons unknown to me, NOT a fan anyone holding whips while on the ground. The first swatty thing I used on him was a fly swisher, and he didn’t love it at first, but quickly realized it was like a second tail. He’s good with a crop or dressage whip while riding now as well and I assume when his owner drove him he used a whip but idk. If someone cracks a whip lunging while we are riding…he gets really uncomfortable and worked up. Ive worked with those training stick things on the ground with him, and he’s better about it but you can tell he doesn’t like it. The first time, he kicked at it! For as even keel as he is normally, it is very obvious he isn’t a fan haha. Long winded way to say Im not lunging with a whip!

[Alterration]

Interesting - I generally teach mine that the whip is nothing to be afraid of by stroking them all over with it, and I use it as a directional tool mostly rather than a driving tool - e.g. if I point it at the shoulder, I want them to step out, point it at the hiney I don’t want that coming near me. I’m not sure I would longe a horse that I could not use a whip with and would focus on fixing that problem first. If you cannot shape their body at the end of the line, it’s going to be very difficult to get the gaits sorted.

I have one that also had a bad experience with whip cracking and it used to cause him to freak out and gallop like a madman (fun discovery), but eventually desensitized him to it and now I can even crack it at him, though it’s not something I do frequently to any horse, usually I use it like a long arm - but I keep chipping away at making it better, because he’ll be in situations in the public when whip cracking happens and I don’t need for him to bolt and kill me.

To help with the desensitization, I do typically use an approach & retreat - meaning, I bring the “scary” thing right to the edge of where they are “a little tense”, and then I remove it. If the feet are moving, you’ve come way too close with it, and if they are looking at it bug eyed, again - you’ve gotten too close. If you have come way too close with it and the feet move, then I keep it where it is in relationship to them until they stop moving the feet, but I also recognize that it was my screwup there taking them over threshold, and start again. Gradually where they get “a little tense” will get closer and closer to their bodies.

I do this until I can stroke them with the scary object and they are relaxed. Generally only takes one session to get to the point where I can stroke them, but sometimes takes a few sessions before it’s not scary at all.

Good luck I’m sure this guy will teach you a lot!

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

You might want to do some work in the arena trying to desensitize him some to a lunge whip first.

Honestly, a good fitting cavesson, side reins, plus a lunge whip is the most productive and safe way to lunge. You can set up a specific bridle just for lungeing as well… with no nose band or reins, and a mild loose ring snaffle. Then connect the side reins to a saddle or surcingle. This will encourage him to learn connection. But you put the correctly fitted lungeing cavesson on first, that you attach your actual lunge line to it, and slip the lungeing bridle on over it. That setup will give you the most control, for sure, but also teach him about steady contact via the side reins.

Personally… I don’t lunge without a whip. I witnessed a horse panic and come flying inside directly towards the person lungeing once… and the whip saved them from a serious injury. I wear a helmet and gloves too most of the time.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Alterration

Interesting - I generally teach mine that the whip is nothing to be afraid of by stroking them all over with it, and I use it as a directional tool mostly rather than a driving tool - e.g. if I point it at the shoulder, I want them to step out, point it at the hiney I don’t want that coming near me. I’m not sure I would longe a horse that I could not use a whip with and would focus on fixing that problem first. If you cannot shape their body at the end of the line, it’s going to be very difficult to get the gaits sorted.

Exactly!

[endlessclimb]

To me, a horse should have a healthy respect for the lunge whip. What your horse is lacking is sensitization/giving in the face. He “grabs” the halter and bulldogs off. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s sluggish off the halter in other areas of life, too.

[NancyM]

OK, “Dressage Extensions” is apparently no longer offering the cheap one I found earlier. But if you google “iron halter”, a very nice one comes up. It’s just an oval metal noseband on a headstall, with the attachment for the lunge line or lead rope correctly shown on the top of the nose, so that the head tips towards you with contact. It’s a very simple tool.
The reason I am so firmly against the use of side reins, especially with a case like this, is that I want that horse to stretch down, nose right down to the ground if he wants to, to relax and use himself on the lunge, relax, and learn to engage his hind end. Because that’s the key to successful riding and training. He can’t learn to do that with side reins on. AFTER he’s learned that, side reins CAN be added, if you wish, correctly fitted to supply light contact with an educated mouth. But with a green horse, I don’t want him to worry about that at this point, and I don’t want him to not be able to stretch his neck down.

Your issue with the lunge whip… if you have good forward impulsion, you don’t need to use one. If you need to urge him forward, having some sort of tool that he responds with “forward” to is often helpful. If he is THAT frightened of a lunge whip, perhaps something smaller… a driving whip? a dressage whip? It’s a “misnomer” to call it a “whip”, because it’s pretty rare that you are ever going actually touch him with it. Some people use a “flag”, which is a bit of material or plastic tied onto a dressage type whip. It’s just something to waive around appropriately to urge him to “forward” motion. Because “bolting” isn’t “forward”, it’s “away”. There’s a difference. Good luck!

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Jumping back to add/clarify … other posters are definitely correct, that you want to establish cantering without side reins before adding them in. And definitely start loose and build up.

And a driving whip is a great tool for ground work, and might be easier to use at first if he truly has anxiety with the lunge whip. You can still give directional aids with a driving whip.

For sure, you want better control over the head though. That’s essential. There are different styles of cavesson that work well for different horses. Head shape can be a factor in what works best for a horse. But having that line attached on top of the nose, vs indirectly to a bit or to a halter? It gives you MUCH more control, and they realize that pretty quick.

[SuzieQNutter]

Horses can stretch down in side reins. You never pull a horses head in with side reins and they should be able to go without side reins first. The side reins should be attached too long to start with to make sure the horse is thinking forward. They must NEVER take a backward step.

I, too, stroke with the whip to get them used to it. The whip is not used to keep them going. The whip does not need to be cracked. You use it to start with only when they break. They learn to keep going without the whip.

[FjordBCRF]

I can touch him with the whip or other whiplike implement of destruction now. We’ve worked on that. He is more reactive to if the tail of it flicks or you can hear the whoosh sound from it, that will get him riled out and uncomfortable. I stand a good bit away from him in the round pen and quietly make the tail end move and start to come closer and he’s gotten better with it, but he still cares. Were not yet to the place where I can fly it around right next to him. Interestingly, I can ride him and flap a towel around like a lasso and he isn’t bothered at all. It seems very “whip” specific. We’ve done a couple obstacle workshops as well and nothing much bothered him there either and there were a lot of pool noodles in action.

There have been a couple times where we’ve been riding and others are using it and making sounds with it, that he doesn’t appreciate at all.

[candyappy]

I run the lunge line under the chin. Hooked to the off side of the full cheek snaffle and running through the ring on my side. Even with my mule I could lunge that way with a loose line. Any unwanted antics that might crop up were easily kept in check.

I always lunge in a open field. No arena here.

[FjordBCRF]

Update! After getting some new bits to try (under saddle and driving), I lucked myself into a little more control on the lunge line. I just started lunging again now that the weather is not completely crap but still pretty crap here in my state. Starting in the round pen, I noticed that the Stubben ez control loose ring indeed offered some additional control on the lunge! He had been going nicely in it under saddle but I didn’t expect the lunge difference. I took him out of the round pen (and closed the gate just in case), had his nose in and asked for a canter. The first couple times he tried to run out of the circle like he’s done in the past, but without success. Once I was pretty confident I had control, I continued to ask, and he had a couple nice tries in between trying to fight it. We still have more work to do, but that’s expected. He thinks learning to lunge is plain old ridiculous.

[DMK]

(ETA oops noticed this was an older thread, nm)

What exvet said!

Also, to all that said keep the nose in, you are correct. However you have never met a fjord freight train. I mean you can dream about having control of that nose, but that’s about it.

And you can spend a lot of money on various lunging devices, but short of a round pen, it’s generally considered a donation of your dollars rather than a problem solver.

In my case I did as exvet suggested and just built up the strength under saddle, then when I thought he was strong enough to handle a smaller round pen and side reins, I just used standards and poles to create one. Because the average Fjord isn’t motivated to bust out of the merest suggestion of a round pen (that would be rude and require some effort), but using That Neck to get out of difficult work is like asking them to draw their next breath.

[FjordBCRF]

@DMK

However you have never met a fjord freight train. I mean you can dream about having control of that nose, but that’s about it.

THIS 100% When he decided he was done, nothing else existed and he was gone. They would give a freight train a run for their money.

Another story on that note, when he first arrived and the vet was out for the PPE he asked me to trot him in hand. I think that was the first time he was ever asked to do that because that was a take off/run for the hills too. I managed to keep hold of him though he almost ran the entire length of the lunge line out of my hand. The vet said he was impressed LOL. Same move as on the lunge line minus it being on a circle. Now we are happy to follow me around at a trot at liberty and on the lunge!

Thanks for that Stubben recommendation @DMK; he fights it a bit under saddle but when he gives into it, he’s rounder, lighter and making more froth than he ever has. I bought that one new and if it ends up not being our go to under saddle it will be worth every dollar for working on lunging. He is also getting MUCH more strength under saddle at the canter; we’re cantering circles over poles now, really getting the hang of lead changes (not flying yet), and getting much more balanced all around and the nicer attempts at the canter showed this. He also very much knows the word “canter” which was evident when I started in the round pen as he gave me a side eye and an ear back when I said it. Now just to convince him lunging on a circle without me on his back isn’t so bad

[eightpondfarm]

@Willesdon

If you have an enclosed ring, try free schooling and allow the horse to establish the canter on his own. Use voice commands all the time, not so different from training a dog.

couldn’t agree with you more!