@mvp, mine was actually really easy to fit. I admit I wasn’t doing any high performance fitting (or high performance dressage), but she was comfortable from green to schooling 2nd(+epsilon) in a Wintec Isabel. She had real withers and a straight back, which I know made her easier to fit than some. I’ve actually known quite a few people over the years who have been happy with Wintecs on their arabs though - but again, not necessarily super high performance types, so take that as you will.
Wintecs also work well for my girl, who is Arab/Selle Francais breeding. Although her back is relatively curvy with a prominent shoulder, forward girth groove, and decent wither. I will say, her back changed a lot— I’ve owned her since she was born, went through many, many saddles. She was also very slow to mature, growing until she was 8 and still filling out some after that.
Yanno, those Wintecs are pretty dang good. I have seen them fit a whole lot of horses and provide riders with a balanced-enough ride for not a lot of money… and they last forever! I think they are too stiff in the panels for this horse and a tad too stiff for the most princess-y riders who love tack like me. But I respect Wintec saddles as a really, really great version of the product they were designed to be.
Same for the Bates Isabel saddle (at least the first generation ones)-- the balance in those was very middle-of-the-road and that made them great for a lot of riders.
I bought an Arab for dressage because it was more affordable and I am only 5’6" and do not want a huge horse. An Arab-warmblood would have been nice, but the local ones were a litle pricey too. I have ridden so many Thoroughbreds from my hunter days that I don’t want to ride anymore. I like the forwardness in Arabs with the sensiblility. I wient with the Thorowgood T4 Cob saddle since the Bates Isabell saddle that I loved just wasn’t wide enough and the tree was too curvy for my flat-backed mare. The change in saddles has made a huge difference.
I’m in CA, and we see a lot of Arab/Friesian as well as Arab/WB crosses. Both doing super well in the show ring. A big part of it is the Arab Sport Horse show circuit - which is pretty active in CA, and part of it is the Arab tends to cross well with a lot, lot, lot of breeds. It really is a foundation breed for that reason - tends to refine (aka make pretty) but add good bone, good feet (which is lacking in many WBs after too much TB added in). Arabs tend to have a lot of energy and stamina, which is super helpful with the Friesian crosses, and it tends to be a more sane, people oriented energy which is super helpful with the WB crosses.
Hilda Gurney rode a few Arab crosses, and she commented that more riders would have FUN if they were on these smaller, lighter, easier to sit horses. So that is coming from someone who rides a lot of WBS…
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@Cally0826: I also have an Arab (14.3 hh) and he fits the T4 Cob pretty well with annual checkups from the saddle fitter for flockings and stuff. In the Mid-Atlantic US, decent Arabs (not halter-show quality, the kind you actually ride) are relatively affordable if you like the breed and don’t want a huge horse.
OMG… if you see some that could be, say, a legit USEF children’s hunter, will you send it my way? It doesn’t have to be started. But it does have to move well enough and it will have to be at least 15.3 and have a 12’ stride.
Thank you! I have been trying to buy an Anglo- or Half Arabian to go with my dressage one for ages. I haven’t found the right hunter horse or prospect.
ETA: I’m in the Southeast. Thanks again!
I grew up immersed in both arabians and the hunter circuit… I will say like 0.1% of them are capable of being “legit USEF children’s hunters.” We had a couple growing up. A good friend did medal finals on one back in the 90s. But they are few and far between. Most are just too small for today’s standards. The tail set usually blows their cover. There were always rumors of local trainers nerving their arabs’ tails so they could be competed and sold for open shows.
Oak Lawn Farm (OLF) in Virginia has a reputation for crabbet-bred horses with a lot of jump. Growing up, we were able to use a lot of them in local pony hunters. Tend to be small and not very typey. I don’t know if they are still active today; the website isn’t working right and hasn’t been updated in years. This old ad has contact info:
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I agree about the purebreds. But I think an Arabian/WB cross might work. Mine looks the part, complete with no flagging tail (as well as her tail being super long and thick!). But mine is too hot and too fine-boned to really be a hunter. She does like jumping, though; she thinks it’s interesting.
Also, when you see an arabian for sale advertised as “15.3h,” you can bet money it’s more like 15h tops. Arabian people are some of the worst about embellishing heights. :lol: Right up there with thoroughbred stallion managers.
I’ve known hundreds upon hundreds of arabians in my life. I’m scratching my head trying to think if any purebreds were actually 15.3h. We had some legit 15.2h ones when I was a kid, but those are the biggest I can recall. They were all arab, fabulous horses who did it all, but certainly not open hunter types. Every now and then I see something with like French breeding advertised at or around 16h… but I’m always skeptical.
ETA: oops, we were posting at the same time. Crosses around 15.3h shouldn’t be a problem.
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It’s pretty tough to find legit 15.3 hh Arabs. You might do better with an anglo (adds height, looks less “arab”). Stride isn’t a problem, but height is going to be tough. For flat-kneed, workmanlike Arabs with solid feet and riding-style conformation, you might have some luck looking at racing lines and/or endurance-bred horses. They also tend to not be as extreme-seahorse-face as the halter bred lines.
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My arab/WB’s dam was a racing arab bred by Bill Waldron, one the fixtures of arabian racing for many years. The dam was mostly polish and russian breeding, which I know very little about other than those lines are popular for racing and endurance. She was like a little TB with a higher set tail, which is probably why my arab/WB mare is so versatile. She was initially approved for breeding by several WB registries. However, her dam turned out to be a less-than-spectacular broodmare (my horse was her first and probably nicest), tending to pass along her worst attributes, and was culled from the broodmare band and sold as a riding horse. Most of the good in my mare comes from her sire IMO. Not that my horse is a disappointment by any means; she’s quite nice. But her arab influence is limited to lighter bone than her sire, a weaker hind end, and the endurance to spook all day long if she chooses. Movement, jump, conformation-- that all came from dad.
Are there any particular lines that you (@Texarkana and other arab experts) find particularly good for sport (particularly dressage)? I mean sire/dam lines or names to look for in pedigrees, more than crabbat/polish/egyption/etc (though that info is also welcome).
If I were going to breed a Half Arabian (at least for dressage), I’d start with a good-minded, large-enough WB mare and pick among some of the (admittedly few) Arabian stallions who have done some upper-level dressage.
I’d consider this KB Omega Fahim: https://www.kerriganbloodstock.com/k…him------.html
There were a couple of others, but they were sold out of the country and one died! Arabian Sport Horse Nationals is going on right now, so let me see if any of my Arabian friend see anyone competing there that catches their eye.
If you start with a good mare who has what you want, I think the Arabian stallion would add some lightness and a bit of that mental acuity that’s nice in the Arabian and which can be a wished-for attribute in an old-fashioned style of WB. But the mare, if she is kind, will make the baby large enough and reasonable.
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”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹I’m an Arabian fan and I remember helping a friend look for her first horse. Our running joke when reading for sale ads was to wonder if the measurements were in real hands or “Arabian hands.” Pretty amazing how far off some of the heights were!
Some people have been breeding for taller Arabians but all of the tall ones I’ve seen in person have been narrow, weedy, and with bad hind end angles to get that super-flat croup look. Blech. There are probably some nice taller Arabs out there but none that I’ve seen in person would make decent dressage horses.
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I’ve been noodling around the internet b/c of this thread and saw a race breeder with a pair of really well-balanced, big-boned arabs that they claimed were 16h. Really nice conformation, solid hind end. Attractive, but not super typey in the face. I believe there was french influence?
I’m certainly no expert, but thank you for the compliment! I grew up immersed in the arabian show world, but left that behind many, many years ago. I wouldn’t be paying attention at all if I didn’t happen to own a half-arab.
But in working for a breeder who did a lot of arab x WB crosses, plus just being around so darn many arabs in my youth and having a lot of acquaintances still in the industry, I think the most important thing is a mare who reproduces her best traits.
As I said earlier, my own mare’s dam was Polish/Russian. She wasn’t a good broodmare, but I don’t think that’s a reflection on the lines. @whichchick hit the nail on the head when she said the racing bred ones tend to be more flat-kneed.
The best arab x WB crosses I’ve known were out of a mare who I wouldn’t have expected, Egyptian with maybe 40 or 50% Crabbet blood.
I grew up with a lot of Egyptian and Crabbet horses around. Some I think would have been good candidates. Others, not so much. Arabs tend to be so inbred that it’s rare to see a pedigree with names I don’t recognize far enough back, yet I do not have the knowledge to make heads or tails of it in most cases. Also, for some reason, the arab breed seems to attract an increased number of hoarder breeders who breed for quantity, not quality. There are quite a number of “highly regarded” breeders who I would not recommend because I am morally opposed to how they go about “developing” lines.
So everything I know about French arabs come from COTH, so take it with a grain a salt. But a while back, there was a thread on some drool-worthy French stallions and it was echoed several times that French arabs are infamous for not being purebred despite being advertised as such. I don’t know if that’s true, but if one wanted to go that route, I might double check AHA registration status first.
I saw the stallion *Zahid at an Arabian horseshow in Michigan MANY moons ago. I believe he was straight Egyptian and was easily 16 hands. He was entered in a Park class before they wanted the “extreme” moving front ends. (He would have been considered an English Pleasure horse by way of movement later; there WERE some of those types in his class that day.)
What I remember after him winning the Park class was the show vet going up to the rider. I didn’t hear exactly what she said to the rider, but the rider asked her, “Would you like to ride him?” And she did, and *Zahid was SO well-behaved with her.
East-coast I like FCF Oberon’s Vanity. He’s 15 hh in “real horse” height and he does not THROW height – bred to other Arabs, he looks to throw about 14.2, 14.3hh. Pick a tall mare. They do cooled-shipped if you’re into that. He’s got a decent resume and has some chops. https://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/fcf-oberons-vanity.html (Also on facebook, under faeriecourtfarm, he just did Vermont Dressage Days with PSG tests.) I also really, really like the crabbet stallion SSA Dargon PC (video here: https://vimeo.com/213136785 ), who does not have near the resume that Oberon does. He’s 15hh in real horse size (I’ve seen him up close and in person and he’s taller than my legit-sticked 14.3hh arab with really nice solid feet and legs. He throws a floaty trot, damn decent back legs, and a lively personality.
Both of these stallions are heterozygous grey, so you’re 50-50 on the “How hard will this horse be to keep clean” question, if that’s an issue for you.
Full disclosure: I do not own an interest in either stallion. I am not getting paid to promote anyone’s stallion.
