[QUOTE=RedMare01;6322461]
Lightweight chains are used (though I’ve only seen them used when working the horse). I never saw anything cruel about them. They’re loose, light, and literally like the horse wearing a bracelet.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, this benign training technique will probably be swept up in the figurative raid of that part of the horseworld. Baby/bathwater.
I was in Shelbyville a few years back where they happened to be holding the big TWH show. All of a sudden the place emptied out and horse trailers were everywhere. Turned out the inspectors showed up to make sure horses weren’t being treated badly, the news got out and the show literally shut down.
The “Big Lick” people are lowlifes, it’s a ghastly looking perverted horse gait. I’ve had 2 walkers and my mule’s mom was a TWH and is gaited so I’m acquainted with the breed…these big lick trainers are scum when they train this way.
Of course, Walking horse people don’t have the market cornered on bad horse treatment…Rolkurs in the dressage world, and a trainer who just died rode Samuri hard to finish her x-country after she knew he was crippled (and was caught and booed on COTH about it). Lots of ill-treatment in many breeds.
The HSUS and Pepsi both acted for publicity and for political reasons. I won’t buy any Pepsi product due to company’s support of gun control, but in this case, they did the correct thing. HSUS…the bad guys and some real bad people in control of that group.
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6322470]
(YEA Wayne Pacelle & Keith Dane, my horses loves you!) under cover Video, but you can go to my website and see it all in one place
I would be more than happy to answer any question my friends here have…
this is a EVERBODY Thing!
Good talkin to ya again
The Preacher
Champagne Watchout
Walkin On Ranch of Cookeville, TN[/QUOTE]
That was a very interesting post, and thank you for your part in bringing this all to light.
I also just wrote in another post that Champagne Watchout is one of the most appealing horses I have ever seen. You are a very lucky person to be his steward.
But I am astounded that you think Wayne Pacelle is your friend as regards your horses, or that he is a positive for the horse world at large.
If truth be told, Wayne Pacelle, by his own admission, would rather that Champagne Watchout was never foaled.
…and his life is dedicated to a future which reflects that…
[QUOTE=Amwrider;6322645]
Let’s make sure that when thanking Pepsi for pulling their sponsorship, we also ask that they NOT support the HSUS with the money they are saving by not sponsoring the Celebration.
HSUS did do the video, but money would be better donated to local shelters.
I just have a gut feeling that HSUS will be after Pepsi for the sponsorship money.[/QUOTE]
It makes me a little ill to think that HSUS will certainly reap great financial reward for this expose. And perhaps they should, they did a good job exposing a serious problem. But it still does not sit right with me.
[QUOTE=sketcher;6322895]
It makes me a little ill to think that HSUS will certainly reap great financial reward for this expose. And perhaps they should, they did a good job exposing a serious problem. But it still does not sit right with me.[/QUOTE]
But that is their M.O. – high profile tug-at-the-heartstrings exposés and missions, designed to get people to open their wallets so that they can continue to fund their legal campaigns against the rest of the animal-owning public, a little at a time…
The news has made it to CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/tennessee-horse-abuse/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
Please let’s keep our attention focused!
Someone above has asked that this thread please stay “on target,” and I agree. We have a window of opportunity here to right a serious wrong, one that no civilized society should be tolerating in 2012.
Whatever you may think of HSUS (and I’m with you!), whatever training methods may be used for ASB,'s these are side issues not particularly relevant to helping THIS situation, right now! I’m not a mod, but perhaps another thread for those discussions might be in order.
Please let’s keep this thread focused on news updates, outing sponsors and executives of the pertinent organizations, and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ATROCITIES.
Many thanks!
Will read the CNN report soon as the coffee kicks in.
As far as ths HSUS goes you will notice that I didnt put a link in post 147 to thank them. Although their footage helped this whole McConnell mess be shown to the masses and I am glad for the exposure, I do not support them.
Who do you all think of this ? I know that many of the abusive practices that show horses endure take place at home, before the trailer ride to the show. Do these laws include training farms ? I wonder what states have passed these new laws. I need to know more. These sort of laws will protect not only the innocent, but sadly the perpetrators also.
Thanks Swamp Yankee - i included some of your ideas on the resource post#147. keep the good ideas coming !
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6323051]
Who do you all think of this ? I know that many of the abusive practices that show horses endure take place at home, before the trailer ride to the show. Do these laws include training farms ? I wonder what states have passed these new laws. I need to know more. These sort of laws will protect not only the innocent, but sadly the perpetrators also.[/QUOTE]
But the so-called “ag gag” bills do NOT stop undercover operations - they stop someone from obtaining a job under false pretenses and for the purpose of filming “abuse.” The guy that made this video was a legitimate employee of the barn - he merely accepted H$U$ money in exchange for the film.
Thanks for clearing that up The Barn Rules and i love your tagline !
[QUOTE=Rapaloosa;6322458]
From what I understand one of the favored abuses of the American Saddlebreds is breaking the tails and forcing the horses to wear a tail set to reset the horse tail into the high carriage. They have to wear the tail set mechanism most of their life to maintain the set, which means they are confined to stalls almost all of their lives. This of course as in many abuses applies to horses that are being shown.[/QUOTE]
I have never had saddlebreds or TWH or any of the others, but really check your facts before posting disparaging statements. I don’t like tail sets either, but I did sell a former saddlebred show horse to a friend that is absolutely the BEST saint of a horse I have encountered in a lot of years. The horse has a “broken” tail and wore a tail set while he was shown. He carries his tail normally now, lives outside 24/7 and the only way you would know is if you grad his tail and he tries to swish it, it has an extra “break” in it that makes it wag with an extra joint. Does not affect his ability to swat flies or impair him in any way. DON"T GET ME WRONG, I hate the idea that they do it to them but at least it does NOT impair them for life and leave them doomed to life in a stall or an inability to swat flies…
[QUOTE=SwampYankee;6323008]
Someone above has asked that this thread please stay “on target,” and I agree. We have a window of opportunity here to right a serious wrong, one that no civilized society should be tolerating in 2012.
Whatever you may think of HSUS (and I’m with you!), whatever training methods may be used for ASB,'s these are side issues not particularly relevant to helping THIS situation, right now! I’m not a mod, but perhaps another thread for those discussions might be in order.
Please let’s keep this thread focused on news updates, outing sponsors and executives of the pertinent organizations, and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ATROCITIES.
Many thanks![/QUOTE]
Couldn’t disagree more - the HSUS angle is germane, and I think we can all walk and chew gum at the same time 
Unless of course, you are the OP? If you are, my apologies.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6323072]
Thanks for clearing that up [/QUOTE]
Well, now I’m a little confused - the CNN story says the person that made the film had only worked at the barn for a couple of months and the Yahoo story says he was a RARA placed there by H$U$, so I’m not sure if he was a “legitimate” employee or not.
[QUOTE=TheBarnRules;6323141]
Well, now I’m a little confused - the CNN story says the person that made the film had only worked at the barn for a couple of months and the Yahoo story says he was a RARA placed there by H$U$, so I’m not sure if he was a “legitimate” employee or not.[/QUOTE]
He may well have been a true employee. Around that time there was a cash reward out for workers to video abuse.
About the AG GAG legislation:
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/five-states-now-have-ag-gag-laws-on-the-books/
Iowa and Utah enacted new laws, while ag-gag bills were killed in Florida, Illinois and Indiana. Ag-gag bills remain pending in Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New York and Tennessee.
This whole mess brings up philosphical issues. Is it right for the end to justify the means ? Was the worker a plant or a true employee who did the right thing/needed the reward ? Am i thankful that the film exposed abuse ? yes Is my thankfulness (along with mistrust of HSUS) tantamount to wearing blinkers in that i can appreciate the result while not condoning some of the process ? In this case, even if he was a plant i feel it was a good thing because of the nature of the abuse. But planting and exposing can be misused and dangerous to folks who are doing the right thing for their animals, when zealots are the ones who get to edit and editorialize the footage.
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;6323182]
About the AG GAG legislation:
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/five-states-now-have-ag-gag-laws-on-the-books/
Iowa and Utah enacted new laws, while ag-gag bills were killed in Florida, Illinois and Indiana. Ag-gag bills remain pending in Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New York and Tennessee.[/QUOTE]
There will be interesting challenges to these laws when true journos or filmmakers engage in undercover investigative
reporting.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6323203]
This whole mess brings up philosphical issues. Is it right for the end to justify the means ? Was the worker a plant or a true employee who did the right thing/needed the reward ? Am i thankful that the film exposed abuse ? yes Is my thankfulness (along with mistrust of HSUS) tantamount to wearing blinkers in that i can appreciate the result while not condoning some of the process ? In this case, even if he was a plant i feel it was a good thing because of the nature of the abuse. But planting and exposing can be misused and dangerous to folks who are doing the right thing for their animals, when zealots are the ones who get to edit and editorialize the footage.[/QUOTE]
Well, there you go. What compromises are you willing to
make? My first post in this topic said I was right there till I found out who was behind it.
Every piece of film or video has a point of view, everything can be manipulated. It’s a matter of whether you trust the source so you have to do your homework. There are news channels I won’t watch because I find their reporting biased to the extreme and woefully inaccurate.
Some here have decided HSUS is tolerable because they brought this issue to a national audience. Will they find HSUS tolerable the next time?
[QUOTE=equinedriver;6323096]
I have never had saddlebreds or TWH or any of the others, but really check your facts before posting disparaging statements. I don’t like tail sets either, but I did sell a former saddlebred show horse to a friend that is absolutely the BEST saint of a horse I have encountered in a lot of years. The horse has a “broken” tail and wore a tail set while he was shown. He carries his tail normally now, lives outside 24/7 and the only way you would know is if you grad his tail and he tries to swish it, it has an extra “break” in it that makes it wag with an extra joint. Does not affect his ability to swat flies or impair him in any way. DON"T GET ME WRONG, I hate the idea that they do it to them but at least it does NOT impair them for life and leave them doomed to life in a stall or an inability to swat flies…[/QUOTE]
Saddlebreds tails are NOT broken. A slight nick is made in the tendon on each side at the base of the tail. They are then placed in a set (which comes off every day) and CAREFULLY monitored and cleaned. It heals within a few weeks, and FULL movement is retained. For the lifetime of the horse. The purpose of this is it makes the tail more flexible (not clamped to their butt) so the horse carries it higher off their rear to balance out the high head carriage. They are NOT forced to wear tail sets 365 days a year. Most often, after show season, sets and shoes are pulled. Yes, even our world grand champion horses are TURNED OUT (gasp!!) to run and play. You see, at that level, and when a Saddlebred is “finished”, they really don’t need to be “trained”, just conditioned. A saddlebred, who is drilled on and worked without any let down time, will burn out. ALL of the top ASB barns work hard to keep their horses fresh, HAPPY, and having FUN! REALLY!! Can things go wrong with a cut tail? Absolutely. If not taken care of, it can get infected. If a horse likes to twist his set, it can force the tail to go crooked. We had a three year old come into the barn. He wasn’t broke, but they had cut his tail, (:eek:) didn’t take care of it, and was a crooked mess. That being said, our breed, and several of the top trainers, are moving towards HAND STRETCHING the tail to achieve the high carriage that looks so nice. I have a colt who, when put in a set, carries his tail like it was cut. It’s perfect and straight, without the pain of the procedure, risks, and cost associated with it being nicked.
The Saddlebred breed IS NOT the bad breed, with the bad people, that people from the outside have made it to be. Are there some bad eggs? Of course. Every breed has some. But walk into our barn, where we have been showing ASB’s all the way to the World Championships for years, and you will find a barn full of happy, personable, charming horses, who are our friends. The get turned out, are barefoot when not showing (or just a plate), they get chiropracted, massaged, have special herbs, etc, and are just plain spoiled! I ask you keep an open mind about every breed, and not assume the bad stuff you hear is the truth, as I don’t assume everything bad I hear about quarter horses, jumpers, etc, are true.
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