Deflecting doesn’t help the issue. This Off Course section is provided for anything, so COTH can have this post if they wish. If you don’t want people to be “poking” this issue, then help stop the soring for real by stop supporting HPA violators and stop sending horses to known cheaters. Make people responsible for their actions instead of letting them come up with excuses. Admit that what Jackie McConnell did is still rampant, and stop defending him and people like him. If the industry would actually stand up and do something about this rather than continuing to cover up and lie about what’s really going on, then the attention would stop.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;6794383]
Why would the COTH, whose focus is sport horses, spend time and effort dealing with an issue that affects a tiny minority of a minor breed? Even if you figure on including all the sored up flat a and light shod horses you don’t have hardly the entry at one major trotting event.
While the practice is the domain of the cruel and incompetent that does not mean that publications with a totally different orientations should spend their time exposing it. Now a publication with a broader focus, like say Western Horseman or The Horse is a different kettle of fish. Maybe y’all should “poke”* them instead!!! 
G.[/QUOTE]
Deflecting doesn’t help the issue. This Off Course section is provided for anything, so COTH can have this post if they wish. If you don’t want people to be “poking” this issue, then help stop the soring for real by stop supporting HPA violators and stop sending horses to known cheaters. Make people responsible for their actions instead of letting them come up with excuses. Admit that what Jackie McConnell did is still rampant, and stop defending him and people like him. If the industry would actually stand up and do something about this rather than continuing to cover up and lie about what’s really going on, then the attention would stop.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6794034]
But unfortunately, the soring issue has not yet really come to the attention of COTH - it is but a thread on the forum. It would be a great day indeed if Chronicle of The Horse would actually assign a journalist to examine the issue and address it formally in the magazine. Specially since AAEP, AVMA, and USEF are continuing to turn their esteemed attentions to it.
But to my knowledge they have not.
Maybe time for a little poke to the magazine itself?[/QUOTE]
Excellent idea!
I apologize, G–I misread your post.
What COTH doing a story about this would do is get it to that many more people about what’s going on, and that will lead to more awareness and more support to help stop this. If we could get a bunch of COTH members to show their support of the new amendment, then that’s just that much closer we get to winning this battle.
Indeed! COTH has a lot of good reasons to turn its eyes on this topic.
A story:
Went to observe a clinic: Harry Whitney.
Went to observe a lesson: Bill Woods.
I do not need to tell you the parallels between what the two taught were infinite. Like they were born of the same cloth.
It was some good stuff. Yah.
So in my mind and mini world, the potential of such horsemanship was either lost or never offered to the stacker crowd. Or the stacker folks turned their backs on great horseman and then corrupted their ways to mimic the high step and the willing horse by hobbling and restraining them - lots of force.
And I am sure stackers still squint real hard to blur their vision of what they have done to the horse to be something great - but just misunderstood by those outside of stacker world. Like the way a strong forceful rider might do to justify what they do as something good. We all know strong riders who can force a horse to do most anything. But only a person who has seen true greatness will see that a forced ride is never the equal of the ride of willing partners.
Bottom line: Good horsemanship is good horsemanship - no matter your tack or discipline. Both these men (Harry Whitney and Bill Woods) presented the same core of truth to the participating horses and riders. The stacker crowd does not know this truth.
How can they know what it is they do not know?? How can they really understand how encumbered the stacked and chained and weighted shod horse is???
Fact is they can’t, won’t and don’t. And no amount of words will show them. They have to see greatness at the side of a great horseman to appreciate it. They have to see balance to appreciate it. They need real horseman to show them.
IF real horseman direct their attentions to them - like a good jerk on their chain - they will get the attention of that stacker crowd and THEN might be able to bring and invite them to a much better and higher place.
In the ‘about us’ section of COTH they recognize the industry they serve as the sport horse. And in each article good horsemanship built upon the great horseman before them is what is sought and displayed. COTH might call it sport horsing - but it really is just good horsing.
So if COTH directs its attentions to this stacked population of horses and exerts a little influence, who knows… along with adding weight to those who want to erase this from the show circuit (us little posters) - they may just show the way for the corrupted to revisit the principles that the great riders before us all set out.
They just may fulfill their other describer in the “about us” section. And that is to be “an information hub for those who desire to live the active equestrian lifestyle.”
I think they can squeeze in an issue.
The Chronicle forums is a great place for this discussion.
Their magazine isn’t. For 2 good reasons:
- They only cover certain sports/disciplines and have only so much print room.
- The only readers of the magazine aren’t going to be the people who change anything in the Big Lick world. Not because they don’t want to, because when it comes to Big Lick, they don’t have a voice/count.
The way to get support for those trying to ban Big Lick and/or abusive practices and just plain abuse is to target the TWH audience. The people who will have an enormous affect on it…the ones who fund it and who watch it.
This is a great way to vent, share information and bounce ideas off of one another and with people of all equine backgrounds. But overall if there’s going to be ANY serious changes…this isn’t the target audience. And I’m not saying that to be a downer or to try to stifle any conversation here. I think this is a good thing. I’m saying it because it makes the most sense and the most potential for change to funnel energy and action into areas where it has the highest chance of success. The Chronicle Magazine isn’t that place. The readers will all read about it, shake their heads and feel awful. But that’s about all they can do because it’s not like they are the ones oiling the abuse machine by attending it, adding income to it or even by watching/reading/purchasing anything TWH related. The removal of show grounds is a good thing…but hit them where they’ll feel it.
What some Mainer thinks about BL horses won’t much matter. Sorry Mainers 
What some Charity in Mississippi thinks about being associated with the BL horses, does matter.
Encouraging more local coverage and pressure or even a generalized awareness via a magazine like Horse Illustrated, Equus, etc: that would help.
It’s not like the gen pop can pick up COTH at Books a Million.
The COTH, as fine a publication as it is, has a circulation under 15,000. Western Horseman has a circulation of 160,000. Which has the better chance of making an impact on the broader horse world?
You might try Sports Illustrated. They did the original expose’ on the Big Lick cruelties back in the '50s. Their circulation is about 1,300,000.
Of course if you want to really make a splash get AARP interested. Their flagship mag. has a circulation of over 13,000,000!
Exposing your basic Big Lick supporter to the work Harry Whitney or Jimmy Wofford or any other real-deal trainer/instructor/rider would casting pearls before the swine. They would not care in the slightest. Remember that most Big Lick horses are owned by non-riding owners and are loved by non-riding fans. In that sense it’s like TB flat racing.
You can bet that after the McConnell fiasco the Big Lick barns are a LOT more careful about who they let in and what kind of pictures/video gets taken.
Support of continued, aggressive enforcement of the HPA is the best thing most folks can do. Write to your Congressman/Senator and express your support. They really do pay attention of real letters from real constituents.
G.
[QUOTE=MistyBlue;6795000]
The way to get support for those trying to ban Big Lick and/or abusive practices and just plain abuse is to target the TWH audience. The people who will have an enormous affect on it…the ones who fund it and who watch it.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, this doesn’t work. Believe me, I’ve been involved with this for over a decade. Those who attend and fund these shows are people who consistently defend those who violate the HPA. These are people who grew up in this environment, so it’s very normal to them to watch these horses struggle around the ring and call it great horsemanship and the horses “athletes.” They have absolutely no problem with it.
For example, I recently went on a Facebook group to ask some questions about why people continue to support these people. The excuses were varied and downright ridiculous. Oh, the horse had a fingernail tiny little scar and X from the USDA VMOs from the USDA was out to get me, so he gave me a ticket. The VMOs spend 20 minutes checking horses looking for any hair out of place (I tried asking did you miss the class because of it, because 20 minutes is a long time, and they had a fit). Just because so and so has 16 HPA violations doesn’t mean the horses were sore–they could’ve been 16 horses that were being silly that day and happened to spook at something while the VMO was checking, so they got a ticket. The excuses were something else.
It’s very rare to find someone who actually sees what’s going on. One guy on the thread did say that we need to stop rewarding these people; put in a three strikes and you’re out rule. But he was in the minority.
It is a warped and twisted society where abuse is the norm. These are people who backstab each other in the back one weekend and then are pals the next. They joke about getting their horses past USDA inspections, and they have methods that would blow your mind as to how they sore horses and it goes undetected. This industry knows full well what it’s doing, and they brainwash others into thinking all of it is okay.
So what we need are outsiders to expose what’s going on. A COTH article would do wonders for the horse. Perhaps there are people out there who will write letters and make phone calls to support the new amendment. And they will spread the word to others, perhaps reaching someone who goes to these shows but doesn’t know what goes on behind the scenes, and they will stop going.
There is no change of heart within the industry. Don’t get me wrong–some do change, but it’s few and far between. These are people who “love” their horses because they are entertained by what they look like and how they are “trained” to get there. I equate the TWH industry to dog fighting, cock fighting, bear baiting, and horse tripping: they truly enjoy watching the suffering of other animals and are addicted to the power rush.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6794979]
Fact is they can’t, won’t and don’t. And no amount of words will show them. They have to see greatness at the side of a great horseman to appreciate it. They have to see balance to appreciate it. They need real horseman to show them.
IF real horseman direct their attentions to them - like a good jerk on their chain - they will get the attention of that stacker crowd and THEN might be able to bring and invite them to a much better and higher place.[/QUOTE]
Unforutnately, MANY of these people have seen TRUE horsemanship…and they laugh and poo-poo it. To them, it’s all about quick fixes and easy ways out. They truly do not care about the horse’s well being. Well women wear high heels and it hurts, so the horses can hurt too (never mind that a woman gets to take off her high heels at the end of the day). If he needs a little pain in his mouth to get his attention, so be it. If I have to whip him about the head to get him to mind, then I’ll do it. To them, a horse is “finished” at 4 years old after a couple of shows. If they get on him and ride him at gait and he doesn’t buck you off, he’s broke. My own frustrations concerning the TWH world are tenfold–I have never seen a group that chooses to be so ignorant of proper training and is so ego-based like the TWH industry.
Here’s an example. One of my best friends and heroes is a woman who stood up against soring in 1995 and was in a way exiled by the industry because of her actions. She has since taken up endurance riding, and she truly does love her horses and works very hard to take good care of them. However, growing up in the TWH industry puts a certain mark on a person, so that mentality that horses are work animals and shouldn’t be babied still exists, where “babied” means being patient and taking time to train them. She is very hard on her horses’ mouths. While she does agree with horsemanship that is based in working from the ground up, she gets frustrated with having to take the time to do it. This doesn’t make her a bad person, and I still love her dearly. She’s getting better and better at being patient every time she’s with her horses. It just shows how that mentality is very difficult to change.
I wish you were right, hurleycane. I truly, truly do. But if you were, then soring would’ve ended 20 years ago when the “natural horsemanship” phase came about.
I definitely agree that COTH should have an article about soring, though, just for the sole sake of exposing this more. The more it gets exposed, the less financial support the industry will get, and when the money goes away, so does the discipline.
Lexington still talking about Senator Webb.
http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/22/2485407/ky-voices-its-time-to-end-walking.html
WITW,
And Coth is still talking (GOOD) about padding. There is a thread over on the dressage side. Talking about a freaky weirdest canter they have seen. Guess they do not walk “off-course” very often. At least more people are being aware of the evils of padded horses. Keeping it upfront and in the public eye of how wrong this is to do.
BTW the link posted on the dressage side for a charity show in 2011, I feel so sorry for those horses. Horrible what they do. I saw the arena there looks pretty much empty. The hooters and hollarers were there though, only a few. I couldn’t watch all of it. So sad. Why would anybody watching that think it was ok to do that to a horse?
Thanks for the heads-up. Went and read it - good stuff. Im glad it was posted over in the Dressage forum by mistake. Does not hurt to spread awareness !
Agreed, WITW and rmh_rider!
Usually those watching it are just family and friends of those in the show. They don’t get the big crowds like they used to at these shows.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6796443]
Thanks for the heads-up. Went and read it - good stuff. Im glad it was posted over in the Dressage forum by mistake. Does not hurt to spread awareness ![/QUOTE]
And ditto the thanks for posting in dressage land. The responses and “interest” were great. And the thread made my point for COTH. Cause if nothing else, COTH serves its readers. Its readers are a sophisticated and righteous riding group. I mean one can not ride and be successful on an athletic unencumbered horse in an athletic endeavor without some real horsemanship, right?
I really appreciated and thumbs upped many of the comments but in particular the comments of the poster who wrote how these abhorrent ways become a group’s identity, culture and tradition of “us.” And how all manner of protectiveness ensues when the act is questioned by outsiders. No matter how horrid the act.
Do you think such a group of real dressage horseman would allow such atrocities? Do you think they would have allowed a law to be written 40 some years ago which Federally legalized stacks, chains and such use of a horse??
I think not. And yes unfortunately that is what the HPA did. Like a double edged sword it cuts back.
But as to COTH doing an article on this - think again about who those COTH readers are. Think about who is showcased in their articles. They are the very people we need to get on and bring an end to this. If they (true professional horseman and their clients) do not get involved, we are going to be reading this same thread 40 years from now.
George Morris, Catherine Haddad where are you? Oh! there you are glancing at COTH’s latest article about your great achievements.
And given the surprise in the dressage canter thread, who knows. They may not be aware that it still goes on with a well funded hotness that intends to LEGALLY be here 40 years from now.
Perhaps such powerful clientele of such historically important horseman might mention the issue to a person of influence, or lend a word to a letter to end this practice. Or maybe even testify before Congress to shut this stacker/chained industry down.
Perhaps if a journalist from an elite-ly read and distributed magazine directed their attentions to the matter… well who knows.
Right now we have to show our support to help reintroduce h.r. 6388
https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr6388 Or write/email your congress person.
Agree with Katarine and G. on this, something like Horse illustrated, Western horseman, etc. would reach more people and get more support for h.r. 6388 (if it is reintroduced) and at least raise more awareness about the twh world.
To be quite honest, I never even new COTH magazine existed until very recently, while it would still be GREAT if they did an article, getting a larger mag with more readers and more diverse readers would be the better bet.
So on that note, I will be writing to the larger publications.
Thanks for the link - https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr6388
Sent a note:
[INDENT][I]I support H.R. 6388 (112th) (“To amend the Horse Protection Act to designate additional unlawful acts under the Act, strengthen”) because…
Some time ago (over 40 years), an unfortunate law was incompetently written to stop abuse of the gaited horse: The Horse Protection Act.
It was incompetent in that it did not recognize the total abuse in the way a real horseman would. You see it inadvertently legalized another abuse of the horse: the stacking, chaining and heavy weighting of the hoof.
By declaring these 'devices" legal, Congress made the USDA the steward of an affront to professional horsemen of not just the world, but also of the many before us who perfected great horsemanship through the centuries, from Xenephon to Gene Autry. They are turning in their graves over what the USA has permitted to be done to the gaited horse.
Several esteemed and recognized professional horse associations have sponsored HR6388.
Please hear them out and undo the legalization of horse abuse.
Revisit HR6388.[/I][/INDENT]
:)Had to put a cowboy in there - it is the USA you know! Did I misspell Xenephon??? :0
Want to add the stacker crowd sure is chiming in on the above link.
What say YOU???
Are we gonna be reading this same thread again in 40 years???
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6796830]
:)Had to put a cowboy in there - it is the USA you know! Did I misspell Xenephon??? :0[/QUOTE]
Not sure, I think its Xenophon. Great note though!
