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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

Off Course
#4081

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6938644]
G - Salacydic acid BURNS the tissue off. Look it up. And yes DMSO will drive anything deep, very familiar with DMSO from my race track days. What we mixed with it was meant to accelerate healing or relieve different sources of pain, not to burn skin off and thereby cause a horse distress and agony.[/QUOTE]

Really? WebMD disagrees:

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-866-SALICYLIC+ACID+KERATOLYTIC+-+TOPICAL.aspx?drugid=18&drugname=salicylic+acid+top

Here’s more information:

http://www.drugs.com/pro/salicylic-acid.html

http://www.kaviskin.com/info/salicylicacid.html

I don’t read anything here about “burning.”

As to being picked up by DMSO and contributing to chemical colic, I don’t see much support for that, either.

So it’s clear from the evidence that salicylic acid doesn’t “burn off scars.” From the therapeutic descriptions I don’t see it causing pain, either. Demonstrating, yet again, that just because something is in the arsenal of a sore lick trainer it doesn’t mean that it’s an evil substance that must banned from the Earth.

I’m anxious to see the Big Lick culture consigned to the dust bin of history. But spreading mis- and dis-information about it won’t accelerate its demise.

G.

#4082

Why are all you arguing about a scar removal concoction? I’ve owned horses for over 40 years and never needed such a concoction, any for that matter. Just lucky I guess.

I’ve even had a serious coronary band laceration due to my complete laziness of course. I did not have to use any heroic measures to contain the granulation. Unless Wonderdust and hosing is heroic. It’s healing beautifully, with very minimal scarring.

I think the whole point of the matter is apparently this dope is used more often than the occasional injury. Why would that be?

#4083

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6938665]
Really? WebMD disagrees:

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-866-SALICYLIC+ACID+KERATOLYTIC+-+TOPICAL.aspx?drugid=18&drugname=salicylic+acid+top

Here’s more information:

http://www.drugs.com/pro/salicylic-acid.html

http://www.kaviskin.com/info/salicylicacid.html

I don’t read anything here about “burning.”

As to being picked up by DMSO and contributing to chemical colic, I don’t see much support for that, either.

So it’s clear from the evidence that salicylic acid doesn’t “burn off scars.” From the therapeutic descriptions I don’t see it causing pain, either. Demonstrating, yet again, that just because something is in the arsenal of a sore lick trainer it doesn’t mean that it’s an evil substance that must banned from the Earth.

I’m anxious to see the Big Lick culture consigned to the dust bin of history. But spreading mis- and dis-information about it won’t accelerate its demise.

G.[/QUOTE]

Since folks of many backgrounds read these posts - it is good for them to have their “horsemanship” reflected back at them. Many have changed their affiliations just looking at their own justifications.

And being as anxious as you are, there is no need to minimize their actions either.

Most scar removal is via a peel. A peel or exfoliation is pretty uncomfortable for most who have experienced it. Like a sun burn. And it is one reason the poster cautioned not to use chains but instead to use wooden rollers “if they must have an action device” during the scar removal process.

And most people who have undergone peels do use sunscreen to protect the injured skin.

Yes - a peel is an injury to the skin.

Next on your minimize list???

And hey, I am free to say I am sure others are beginning to realize you are going to need to deride the significance of this real matter and potentially other real matters simply because WITW and/or HC brought said information up.

We get it.

But you are becoming less and less read worthy. JMO but your petty inflammatory comments just need not be brought into this.

#4084

First link i clicked on listing side effects.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR601247/DSECTION=side-effects

Now keep in mind these are side effects of a normal therapeutic dose for humans where if they occur, the human can stop use of the preperation immediately and contact of Dr if necessary. Burning up a horse’s legs and putting them in so much distress that they lay down and dont eat or drink unless it is brought to them, can cause colic. I didnt make up the term chemical colic and i dont believe you when you say that it only pertains to a colic caused by topicals driven in by DMSO. If the skin is raw from the acid do you not think it enters the bloodstream ? Ive always been taught to be careful about what comes in contact with broken skin.

#4085

Another link and partial quote from it

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/pim642.htm#SectionTitle:5.3%20%20Dermal

  1. KINETICS

    6.1  Absorption by route of exposure

     Salicylic acid is readily absorbed from the skin and may
     cause toxicity, particularly in children and the newborn.
     Herbal products such as the chinese medicated oil which
     contains methyl salicylate is also absorbed through
     gastrointestinal mucosa following ingestion (Chan, 1996).

6.2  Distribution by route of exposure

     About 50 to 80% of salicylate in the blood is bound to
     plasma proteins, while the rest remains in the active ionized
     state; protein binding is concentration dependent. Saturation
     of binding sites lead to more free salicylate and increased
     toxicity. The apparent volume of distribution is 0.1 to 0.2
     L/kg. Acidosis increases the volume of distribution because
     of the enhancement of tissue penetration of salicylate (Levy
     & Tsuchiya, 1972).


6.3  Biological half-life by route of exposure

     The plasma salicylate half-life following therapeutic
     doses is 2 to 4.5 hours, but in overdosage, increases to 18
     to 36 hours (Done, 1960). When the metabolic pathway is
     saturated (conjugation with glycin),  zero order kinetics
     apply and thus the elimination half-life cannot be derived
     correctly.

6.4  Metabolism

     At low dosage,  approximately 80% of salicylic acid is
     metabolised in the liver. Conjugation with glycine, forms
     salicyluric acid and when conjugated with glucuronic acid,
     acyl and phenolic glucuronide are formed. Small amounts of
     salicylic acid are also hydroxylated to gentisic acid. With
     large doses, the kinetics switch from first order to zero
     order (Michaelis-Menten) kinetics (Levy & Tsuchiya, 1972).

6.5  Elimination and excretion

     Salicylates are excreted mainly by the kidney as
     salicylic acid, salicyluric acid, salicylic glucuronides and
     gentisic acid. The proportion excreted of each metabolite,
     depends upon urinary pH. With urinary alkalinisation,
     salicylic acid excretion is enhanced (Prescott et al., 1982).
#4086

I don’t know about this…I’m just glad the bill was reintroduced!

#4087

:encouragement: Roy

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/4/15/248973/Roy-Exum-Oh-No-Am-I-A-Terrorist.aspx

Roy Exum: Oh No! Am I A Terrorist?
Monday, April 15, 2013 - by Roy Exum

Roy Exum Tennessee’s dreaded “AgGag” bill, which make those who covertly film or expose acts of animal abuse into criminals, was delayed in the Tennessee Legislature last week but if proponents have their way, a vote on House Bill 1191 will be taken tomorrow in Nashville. The bill, widely criticized by animal rights activists but causing the sickening “Big Lick” segment of the Tennessee Walking Horse industry to urge for its approval, would charge any whistle-blowers with a state misdemeanor if they don’t turn over all evidence to police authorities within 24 to 48 hours.

The very fact the Shelbyville-centered “performance horse” crowd supports the bill is enough to give millions of horsemen around the world the cold shivers but now comes the notion the bill is in blatant discord with the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

Rep. Jon Lundberg (R-Bristol) will try to block the bill in House Committee and said, “This is the first time I have ever seen a bill requiring media to report what they see to police.”

Obviously, Rep Lundberg has smelled the very conspicuous rat. Often it takes longer than 48 hours to build a case. And in Shelbyville, where there have been hundreds of violations of the federal Horse Protection Act at the National Celebration in recent years, law enforcement is so cozy (and dependent) on the Big Lick you’d think the two were country cousins. It’s a fact – there has not been one local arrest in over 40 years of widespread horse abuse in Bedford County.

Deloris Grisham (R-Somerville) has sponsored the AgGag bill in the state Senate but Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris (R-Collierville) knows the bill is a sham. “Obviously this is a Catch-22 bill,” he said last week after getting Grisham to postpone the bill until tomorrow. Further, Norris has indicated he has no choice but to oppose the bill.

Senator Grisham is fooling no one when she piously cries, “This is not an anti-whistle blower bill … we’re just saying, whistle blower, blow your whistle. Take what you have to law enforcement so the abuse will stop.”

Oh, please, Deloris! Like your fellow sponsor, Rep. Andy Holt (R-Dresden), you viciously and publicly call those who filmed the award-winning tape of Jackie McConnell sadistically torturing horses as “vigilantes” while some whacko private-interest group, the American Legislative Exchange Council, calls the same people “terrorists.” Believe it or not – the ALEC wants those who decry animal abuse to be included in some type of a “terrorist registry.” Deloris, please give them my name because horse lovers are well aware what Tennessee has allowed the real criminals to do to Tennessee Walkers. Why do you want to be the “Big Lick” poster girl?

What Grisham, Holt and others on the Tennessee Legislature fail to comprehend is that the state leads the entire world in horse abuse. It is so shameful and glaringly wrong that just last week in Washington a new bill was proposed in Congress that makes Tennessee lawmakers appear as crazed buffoons. This whole defense of those who main and torture horses is beyond my comprehension.

On Friday the 2013 Prevent All Soring Tactics Act (PAST) H.R. 1518, was introduced by lead sponsors U.S. Reps. Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., and Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., along with Reps. Joseph Pitts, R-Pa., Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., Frank LoBiondo, R-N.J., and Jim Moran, D-Va., as original cosponsors. It strengthens the Horse Protection Act, originally passed in 1970.

In short, the American people are fed up with what is happening to Tennessee Walking Horses and, if that makes all those across the nation as well as the world who are continually nauseated over the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s lack of enforcement of these “vigilanties,” I’ll guarantee you the twisted ALEC group is going to need a much-larger computer.

Tennessee legislators like Grisham and Holt are an embarrassment but – get this – the Tennessee Farm Bureau is even supporting the bill, which is inexcusable. Why would the Farm Bureau openly try to shield animal abuse? Why would anybody even worry about a 24-hour window “to comply with the law” if there wasn’t something that thugs were trying to hide? Any and all attempts to block the eradication of horse soring are laughable and should be exposed – excuse me – without the help of a stopwatch.

Just as a fun little exercise, here is a partial list of those already in support of the Congressional PAST Act, which was just introduced on Friday:

VETERINARY SUPPORT

  1. American Veterinary Medical Association

  2. American Association of Equine Practitioners

  3. Humane Society Veterinary Medical Association

  4. Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

  5. Donna Preston Moore, DVM, former head of USDA’s Horse Protection Program

  6. Michelle Abraham (Resident) New Bolton Center, University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary

Medicine

  1. Susan Botts, DVM

  2. Angela M. Dion, DVM

  3. Judith L. Ford, Veterinary Technician

  4. Hanna Galantino-Homer, VMD, PHD

  5. Alicia Grossman, DVM

  6. Midge Leitch, VMD, former head of Radiology, New Bolton Center, University of Pennsylvania School

Of Veterinary Medicine

  1. Sue Lindborg, CVT Research Specialist New Bolton Center

  2. Benson B. Martin, DVM, Associate Professor Sports Medicine, New Bolton Center, University of

Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine

  1. Nat Messer, DVM, University of Missouri College of Veterinary Medicine

  2. Mary A. Robinson, VMD, PhD

  3. Mary Lynn Stanton, DVM

  4. Joy Tomlinson, DVM

  5. Harry Werner VMD , past president, American Association of Equine Practitioners

ANIMAL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS

  1. Humane Society of the United States

  2. American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA)

  3. Animal Law Coalition

  4. Animal Legal Defense Fund

  5. Animal Welfare Institute

  6. Equine Welfare Alliance

  7. Homes for Horses Coalition

  8. Humane Society Legislative Fund

HORSE ORGANIZATIONS

  1. American Horse Council

  2. American Morgan Horse Association

  3. American Paint Horse Association

  4. Friends of Sound Horses (FOSH)

  5. Gaitway Walking Horse Association (Missouri)

  6. Mountain Pleasure Horse Association (Kentucky)

  7. National Plantation Walking Horse Association

  8. National Walking Horse Association

  9. New York State Plantation Walking Horse Club

  10. Northern California Walking Horse Association

  11. Pennsylvania Pleasure Walking Horse Association

  12. Pinto Horse Association of America

  13. Plantation Walking Horse Association of California

  14. Plantation Walking Horses of Maryland

  15. Pure Pleasure Gaited Horse Association (Oklahoma)

  16. Tennessee Walking Horse Association of Oklahoma

  17. Yankee Walkers/Gaited Horse of New England (Maine)

That’s right, not many Tennesseans are listed. Imagine that. It is time for the Tennessee State Legislature to grasp the fact the overwhelming number of people who they represent are disgusted and embarrassed to live in the very state that leads the world in the abuse of its horses.

royexum@aol.com

#4088

Tell it Roy!:encouragement:

#4089

[QUOTE=microbovine;6889407]
I have a question. What are the soundness effects of those horses reaching so far underneath themselves with their back legs? Their tendons are at an unnatural angle. The reason I ask is that I knew a family that pasture boarded a former TWH show mare at my barn. The horse’s pasterns were shot. Her fetlocks almost touched the ground. Shoot, it’s been awhile and I can’t remember if it was her back pasterns or front pasterns. But I remember how shocking it looked. The owners said she was a good show mare and deserved retirement (their other TWHs were at their trainer’s barn). The vet was out to put the mare down when she wasn’t comfortable moving any faster than a walk. The mare was only 14 years old.[/QUOTE]

This is the only ‘dog’ I have in this fight, and even then it isn’t really a dog at all.

There is a horse who boards at our (meaning my mother and I) barn who is a 17 year old Black Roan TWH. Up until this point, I’ve never had any personal experiences with TWHs. I’ll start off by saying that this mare is INCREDIBLY SPOOKY. When she came to us, she’d jump at literally everything and at things that hadn’t been moved all day long. She hates people who move quickly around her more than any other horse i’ve met. The lady who owns her brought all her info when she brought her to our barn for the first time, and the horse came from a farm here in Texas (not Tennessee), is registered, and from what the owner says (and to my understanding) the mare was a lightly shown mare before becoming a broodmare and having a couple of babies. Also, this mare has hip problems too in addition to her spookiness and adding to the fact that she is a TWH leads me to believe she might have have had something happen to her.

#4090

how you can check this mare out retrace the owners of that horse see if she came from a show blood line,if so see if she came from a show barn or a wantta be show barn.check her pasterns,does she have a real deep reach in the rear.
a lot of TWHorses have been abused/trained with the Goodoleboy(Jackie McConnell) method that leaves them spooky headshy to name just a few.
JMO folks,the old gal is 17 she has been abused.its all classic behavior of a TWH that has beenstewarted for the show ring.

#4091

[QUOTE=aarpaso;6943837]
how you can check this mare out retrace the owners of that horse see if she came from a show blood line,if so see if she came from a show barn or a wantta be show barn.check her pasterns,does she have a real deep reach in the rear.
a lot of TWHorses have been abused/trained with the Goodoleboy(Jackie McConnell) method that leaves them spooky headshy to name just a few.
JMO folks,the old gal is 17 she has been abused.its all classic behavior of a TWH that has beenstewarted for the show ring.[/QUOTE]

So just looking at her lines (on her sire’s side), she’s a grand daughter of the 1982 Four Year-Old World Champion Pride’s Genius and this particular stallion was bred by a Harlinsdale Farm in Franklin. Through that line, she’s related to Pride’s Gold Coin who won championships at 2, 3, and 4 years old. There’s nothing mentioned of her show record, which I don’t have and can’t look up since the TWHBEA only has a members only thing which you have to pay money for. I will say that also, these people who owned her before this lady bred and sold a horse who APPEARS(I could be wrong) to be shown stacked?padded? and has a big lick type gait and “wins all the blue ribbons”. You can see from the pictures that he is definitely shown with chains and in another picture he even has his legs wrapped in places that look somewhat suspicious to me. Not claiming anything, but who knows. I smell something fishy. :no:

#4092

[QUOTE=MonterStables;6943916]
So just looking at her lines (on her sire’s side), she’s a grand daughter of the 1982 Four Year-Old World Champion Pride’s Genius and this particular stallion was bred by a Harlinsdale Farm in Franklin. Through that line, she’s related to Pride’s Gold Coin who won championships at 2, 3, and 4 years old. There’s nothing mentioned of her show record, which I don’t have and can’t look up since the TWHBEA only has a members only thing which you have to pay money for. I will say that also, these people who owned her before this lady bred and sold a horse who APPEARS(I could be wrong) to be shown stacked?padded? and has a big lick type gait and “wins all the blue ribbons”. You can see from the pictures that he is definitely shown with chains and in another picture he even has his legs wrapped in places that look somewhat suspicious to me. Not claiming anything, but who knows. I smell something fishy. :no:[/QUOTE]

If it looks like a fish, swims like a fish and smells like a fish, chances are it’s not a duck.

#4093

[QUOTE=CFFarm;6943978]
If it looks like a fish, swims like a fish and smells like a fish, chances are it’s not a duck.[/QUOTE]

It’s just sad that people do this to their animals. This mare is so sweet and at our barn, my mom and I have tried to just do what this mare needs- to be treated with kindness. This lady rides only on occasion and have the time just comes to groom her. She’s a lot better than she used to be as far as being scared of everything goes, but she’s still spooky on occasion with certain loud noises and sudden movements. I hope that they don’t allow the mistreatment of the TWH to go on because quite frankly, i’ve seen all that I need to with this one horse.

#4094

Has anyone seen the text of the bill yet?

#4095

NEWS FLASH]]]]
BL barn in Maryville Tn raided by TBI

#4096

[QUOTE=aarpaso;6946615]
NEWS FLASH]]]]
BL barn in Maryville Tn raided by TBI[/QUOTE]

link?

#4097

The text is up.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.R.1518:

aarpaso - What raid?

#4098

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6947356]
The text is up.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.R.1518:

aarpaso - What raid?[/QUOTE]

On the local new in Knoxville last night. Larry Wheelan, a long time Big Lick trainer, had his barn checked by at least AC. According to the report they swabbed legs; checked one shoe and found it legal; looked around; and then left. No more details at this time.

G.

#4099

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;6946643]
link?[/QUOTE]
Here it is:

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/265502/2/Officials-search-Blount-horse-farm-after-abuse-complaine

#4100

Roy’s column this morning

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/4/19/249313/Roy-Exum-Haslam-Is-Our-Only-Hope.aspx#.UXGA65Z79FU.facebook

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