[QUOTE=subk;6333626]
I just went to the TWHSA site to look at some rules and found the web page for the “DPQ Services.” http://www.twhsa.com/DQP.htm
The link for more information on the the Horse Protection Commission takes you to a Japanesse porn site.
I can’t decide if this is really funny or really sad.[/QUOTE]
H.Y.S.T.E.R.I.C.A.L
A strategy and organized approach would be the way to go. THere are organizations that have been waiting for the opportunity to reform the TWH folks. Perhaps linking up with them would be good. Like the National Walking Horse Association:
http://www.nwha.com/news2012/2012NightlineResponse.pdf
And I have to admit this is not the first time the world’s attention was on this issue. Again and again this carousel keeps circling with the same poor excuses and abuses. And I am here to say we will see the grotesque attachments continue again and again round and round and very legal in that very public ring in a little town in Tennessee.
WHY?
thats tru until BEDFORD County Tn. wakes up.
even seeing it for themselves they turn a blind eye for the $$$$
how sad.
I trained and showed with 2 FEI-level dressage trainers and managed their barn for 6 years. Trust me, we didn’t have gallon jugs of Kopertox, salicylic acid, or “wound grease” lying around. We didn’t dope our horses, and we weren’t the only clean ones, trust me. NORMAL riding does not require a row of washracks lined with chemicals and home-mixed “juice” to “fix” the horses.
And yeah, when we wash horses, we DO use “plain water.” WTF are these people smoking where an operation like the one shown in those videos becomes “normal”???
It certainly doesn’t make it ok, but I still think it’s a crucial difference that when you DO see a doping issue in a performance discipline, it’s almost ALWAYS to MASK pain, not CREATE pain. :mad:
Kadenz, the fact is that the fly spray “Endure” can test as a positive for 'banned substance". So can some completely benign shampoos. Normal stuff, that tests positive as bad stuff.
She is only saying that ‘some’’ of the tickets are bogus, just like my example of a legal 6oz chain until you show in it and it gets dirty. Imagine a legal splint boot until you galloped cross country in it and it got wet, and then it was illegally heavy so you got penalized. That would be coo coo, but it happens.
Neither she nor I are apologists for the atrocities, we are, however, peeling the onion a bit if you’re interested. that’s all.
[QUOTE=Rudy;6332884]
Those who believe that banning pads and action devices will get rid of soring are sorely mistaken.
I am still confused how a horse can be inspected before going in to an arena and is found to be ‘clean’ and then found to be in violation for scar rule after the class is over. Scars are not gone one minute and back another. Watch a horse knock anywhere below the knee with a hoof wet with polish and now you have a foreign substance which is illegal…fly sprays, residue, etc. These horses pretty much need to be washed with plain water and have nothing brought near them besides the saddle to keep from being in violation for foreign substances.
My own horse is older and has scars around his front pasterns from being a ding bat a few years ago and getting caught in a fence. You can hardly see them unless you are digging around but it is enough that I will never show him in an inspected show ever.
I’d be curious to see horses in other high level sports have samples taken and tested to the TWH standard. How many do you think would come up in violation?[/QUOTE]
I think this all-or-nothing type of thinking is wrong-headed. Banning acid from a horse’s pasterns won’t make fly spray illegal; that would be utterly ridiculous.
I trained and showed with 2 FEI-level dressage trainers and managed their barn for 6 years. Trust me, we didn’t have gallon jugs of Kopertox, salicylic acid, or “wound grease” lying around. We didn’t dope our horses, and we weren’t the only clean ones, trust me. NORMAL riding does not require a row of washracks lined with chemicals and home-mixed “juice” to “fix” the horses.
When we show, our horses are ALWAYS subject to a urine test. The kind of skin abrasions and scarring I saw on the USDA’s slideshow of the scar-rule violations in one year? If ANYONE had a horse like that at ANY dressage show or 3-day event, you can BET either a TD, a steward, or the judge would say something and investigate and possibly eliminate the horse. And ya know what, I’ve never seen anyone “go rogue” and get someone thrown out for anything that wasn’t actual abuse.
And yeah, when we wash horses, we DO use “plain water.” WTF are these people smoking where an operation like the one shown in those videos becomes “normal”???
It certainly doesn’t make it ok, but I still think it’s a crucial difference that when you DO see a doping issue in a performance discipline, it’s almost ALWAYS to MASK pain, not CREATE pain.
Huh. When did that happen? Or is it another example of taking a proposition, spinning it out past any logical end to scare people from making changes to the chains and other action devices so beloved by the saddleseat crowd?
I’m just baffled by the fear-mongering that basic regulations and enforcement thereof would create a police state wherein clean horse trainers and riders get ticketed, fined, or eliminated for non-infractions.
A steward who can’t tell the difference between a clean, dry, legal chain and one caked with mud? Really? Come on now.
I’ve taught the dressage bit rules to a guy who doesn’t even RIDE, and he does a great job of bit checking at our shows. This doesn’t take genius-level IQ. Just a little bit of freakin’ integrity.
[QUOTE=katarine;6333775]
Kadenz, the fact is that the fly spray “Endure” can test as a positive for 'banned substance". So can some completely benign shampoos. Normal stuff, that tests positive as bad stuff. [/QUOTE]
FEI horses deal with things like this all the time…from bath water additives to peppermints. It just isn’t a big deal to know what everyday products can test and then find alternatives. NOT. A. BIG. DEAL. Are you really too lazy to learn the rules?
Please, people, let’s keep it focused here. Take your side-issues and obfuscations to another thread. A house divided cannot stand, remember?
[QUOTE=CFFarm;6332923]
It’s easy. The whole division needs to go away. No artificial pads, stacks at all. And as an ex Saddlebred person I believe that for them too, in fact, all artificially amplified breed classes (Arabs, Morgans, etc. Along with tail nicking. It’s totally unnecessary. Let the best horse win with his natural gaits. Yeah, I know, I’m Pollyanna.[/QUOTE]
I’m glad I am not the only person who believes that stacks of pads, shoes so heavy they need hoofbands to stay on, and action devices around the horses’ pasterns need to be prohibited in the ring-- and on the show grounds.
The whole division, which is now called “performance”-- needs to go because it is for those classes in which the Big Lick is expected that the horses are sored and then beaten to teach them not to react when they are inspected.
The practices of soring and beating that is so prevalent in these classes has indeed seeped into the flatshod classes BECAUSE many of the professional trainers who train the padded-up and chained horses also train some of the flatshod horses.
All of the cheating using chemical and mechanical means needs to be eliminated from the show ring and grounds.
The TWH needs to be shown as natural as possible without all the gimmicks that encourage cheating, by soring, pressure shoeing or whatever mechanical or chemical means the trainers can dream up next.
The fewer manipulations of the gait allowed by the use of these artificial add-ons- the harder it is for them to cheat to win. These people have proved for almost 42 years by the sheer number of violations logged that almost all of them are willing to cheat to win, even if by cheating they hurt the horse breed they all profess to love so much.
Remember Jackie McConnell has been training TWHS since 1979. He has been caught 13 times-- operative word: CAUGHT.
But he still was allowed to hold a trainer’s license, an judge’s license (at least at one time I believe) and remain a member of the breed’s professional trainer’s association (until last week) as well as the breed’s oldest and probably largest registration association the TWHBEA – still a member, I believe.
I hate to point this out but, if you ban the physical devices won’t that just put more emphasis on the chemical devices?
And on a slightly more promising note:
The opening paragraph or two:
"Trainer Jackie McConnell was suspended for life and kicked out of the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration Hall of Fame Wednesday in the wake of his agreement to plead guilty to charges of violating the federal Horse Protection Act.
McConnell, 60, who was surreptitiously filmed by the Humane Society beating and applying caustic chemicals to horses’ hooves at his Collierville farm, was banned from entering the grounds of the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration “for any and all events, regardless of the event’s affiliation or ownership,” according to a statement sent out by the Celebration board."
The article continues with a quote from Celebration CEO Doyle Meadows who expresses disgust with McConnell.
Reader comments regarding the article are generally of the “too little, too late” variety, and that taking one person down will not solve the problems.
The Nashville Tennessean seems to be pretty vocal about the situation. It’s a Gannett newspaper, and the company owns other newspapers in the state. It will be interesting to see if the Tennessean’s anti-soring stance is supported by other Gannett newspapers.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6333636]
It was groundbreaking.! And Nathaniel Jackson is The Preacher who posts here ![/QUOTE]
Not really. There are a whole lot of black trainers over the years. The gaited horse world does not limit itself to only whites. It was however the first time a child had ridden in that class.
And this will bring it into the present.
Have to admit I did like the in hand horse called Trigger Treat - he was purdy.
So when did soring begin?
[QUOTE=Kadenz;6333785]
Huh. When did that happen? Or is it another example of taking a proposition, spinning it out past any logical end to scare people from making changes to the chains and other action devices so beloved by the saddleseat crowd?[/QUOTE]
The example she gave happens a lot.The rollers/devices and the straps thathold them on can weigh no more than 6 ounces. By plain water, she means no soap. You can’t wash your horse with horse shampoo for fear of it showing up as a foreign substance.
With regard to work grease-I don’t a place to buy it locally, so I use plain vaseline. It works the same way.I am pretty sure it is the same stuff that I saw slathered on the front legs of the horses at Rolex. I was told that is so their legs slide over those jumps if they brush them. Come inspect my horse if you choose. He is now barefoot his pasterns are clean.
As I walked to doctor my dd’s barrel horse a week or so back, I looked at what I had in my hands. I had a roll of paper towels, saran wrap, and poultice materials. I also had a huge baggie of homemade freezer gel (dishsoap and alcohol) to act as a cooling agent (the bag of course), and a bottle of homemade flyspray (vinegar, water, and dawn dish soap). It dawned on me then that if someone wanted to be ugly, they could assume that I was going to sore my TWH because every one of those substances can be used to “sore” ahorse. They also have legitmate purposes in a barn. A chain and vaseline won’t sore one unless that chain is too heavy, ragged, or is hung so loosely that it slaps. Maybe it looks bad. That is no reason to assume that it is the cause of soring. A person sores a horse using things, the things don’t do it themselves. Pads don’t hurt a horse if they are brought on slowly, and are not excessive. Dont assume that just because something is different that it is automatically bad. Just because some people choose to abuse a horse using those things don’t assume that is ALL those things are used for.
[QUOTE=subk;6333828]
I hate to point this out but, if you ban the physical devices won’t that just put more emphasis on the chemical devices?[/QUOTE]
For those that are prone that sort of stupidity, yeah it will. You can get the gait without chemicals.BTDT
[QUOTE=Kadenz;6333789]
I’m just baffled by the fear-mongering that basic regulations and enforcement thereof would create a police state wherein clean horse trainers and riders get ticketed, fined, or eliminated for non-infractions.
A steward who can’t tell the difference between a clean, dry, legal chain and one caked with mud? Really? Come on now.
I’ve taught the dressage bit rules to a guy who doesn’t even RIDE, and he does a great job of bit checking at our shows. This doesn’t take genius-level IQ. Just a little bit of freakin’ integrity.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it happens. Also, if your horse gets banged up coming off the trailer or hasa pasture scar, all the vet certificates in the world won’t matter. You will get a ticket.My 2 yr old would never pass DQP-not in millionyears. Why? His former “owner” tied him and his dam out by their ankle. He has a nasty scar all theway around.
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