The big question: Employee Retainment

I agree with all of these previous suggestions! What an awesome thread. I don’t comment much but I needed to chime in on this. I hope everyone who owns a business reads these comments! Some of my comments may only apply to full time employees or employees who aren’t just stall cleaners but it’s important across the board.

  1. Fair pay that isn’t under the table. Benefits are great, but if nothing else at least fair pay for your full time employees. They need to be able to pay their bills, otherwise why would they stay? If you can’t pay for rent and utilities, how CAN you stay? Part time employees should also get fair pay that isn’t under the table.
  2. RESPECT and APPRECIATION. Yes, those needed capitalization. I will work my ass off with insanely long hours and never complain about it if I know I am respected and appreciated. I think it’s important to have this both on the coworker to coworker level and as well as boss and employee level. As another poster mentioned, knowing my boss has my back and trusts any decisions I make is a big deal. Occasionally everyone makes a mistake or the wrong decision and it’d be nice to know that I won’t be fired when it does happen.
  3. Communication. Employees should know their job and what is expected of them. They should know the goals of the business, as well as the goals for themselves, and be able to ask questions. Employees should be able to express opinions (within reason, at an appropriate time obviously) and say things like “I’d like to learn this” or “I’ve been working a ton of extra hours, I’d appreciate an extra day off when our schedule slows down” or “I’ve been noticing something and I think this horse would be happier/healthier if we tried ____. What do you think?” I can’t tell you how many mistakes I’ve seen over the years because the BM/BO didn’t pass something along to the employees, one employee forgot to tell another, no one wrote it down, etc. Clear communication and knowing that you are able to reach whoever you need to reach in a short amount of time (and that they won’t be upset if you need clarification!!) is a big deal. It saves time and money for the business. It also helps cut down on employee stress knowing that they know everything that needs to be done and if they have questions, it’s no big deal just ask. For example, my current barn does not have great communication on any level or between the owner, the manager and the employees. I can rattle off several examples that has happened the past month alone. I’d list them here but it’d become a novel. It’s a regular concern of mine that I haven’t been told the correct or complete story and thus am not able to make decisions to the best of my ability.
  4. Working smarter, not harder. This is HUGE as well. Stream lining processes (with good, working equipment, through a better order, however) to save time or money should be encouraged. It doesn’t need to be from a BM/BO point either! Employees should be encouraged and feel that they are able to speak up and say “hi, I think it’s easier if we try it this way. What do you think?” This is not always the case.

I’ve worked in barns for 15+ years at this point, in multiple barns depending on where I was in my life (before college, in college, out of college, etc) but spent around 2 years in an office because I needed a break from the barn life. I ended up leaving my office job to go back to a barn I had worked at previously for many of the reasons above. We weren’t paid well, we were treated like children without any respect, there was “group punishment” (ie one person made a mistake so now everyone is punished), not paid for extra work we put in, job descriptions were inaccurate, personal lives got involved at a lower and managerial level. I left after two years (side note: I should of left in under a year…) because the culture was awful, communication sucked, a slim chance for advancement, and it was nearly impossible to live on the salary. Who would stay in a position like that?

Love this post and all the comments!

To add to the comment about pay, above:

PLEASE respect payday. PAY your employees on the day they’re supposed to be paid. Do not make them ask you for their paycheck, while you complain to anyone within earshot how broke you are… while continuing to pay yourself well.

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[QUOTE=demidq;8555524]
Gumtree, the exchange rate doesn’t work that way when you live in the place you are paid. If I was paid in Canada but lived in the US, I would be in big trouble with the poor exchange rate. If I worked in the US and lived in Canada I’d be ahead of the game. $10 in Canada buys you $10 worth of services in Canada. $10 US buys you $10 worth of services in the US![/QUOTE]

Doesn’t work that way? Sure it does that’s the whole reason there is a difference in the “exchange rate”.

You said $10 US isn’t minimum wage in Ontario. When in fact it is $2.15 Canadian more than the minimum wage in Ontario of $11.15. When one compares oranges to oranges when factoring in the exchange rate.

If I had a farm in the US and one in Canada and I transferred an employee from the US farm who was being paid $10 US to the Canadian farm that person would be paid $13.40 Canadian to maintain the same ‘standard’ of living they have in the US in Canada.

Some things are cheaper in Canada and some things are more expensive.

A quick check the average cost of a house in Canada is $440,000 Canadian, ($325,000 US)

Average cost of a house in the US $188,000 ($252,000 Canadian).

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Thank you Gumtree, I was what the heck ?

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I just thought of this thread after a BNT farm semi-near me posted on FB that their BM was leaving and they were looking to fill her shoes. Job is full-time with weekend help on shows (so, overtime).

As a past BM I eyeballed the ad, which included: feed/turnout/care for 30-40 (!) horses every day, occasional mucking, grooming and tack cleaning responsibilities, barn organizational skills, medical/ABX administration knowledge (this is a skill), bandaging/wound care (this is a skill), holding horses for clients/vets/farrier, riding ability and face-to-face, one-on-one client communication acting as the main liaison between boarders/owners and the farm (AKA professional skill). Weekend availability required, excellent communication skills required, beyond-basic horse care/medication knowledge – guess what? That is not a laborer position - that is a skilled/higher education position.

And they want to pay $10 an hour with no housing or board or benefits included.

And people wonder why no one wants to work in this industry.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like I bumped up the wrong thread… @ladyj79 I remember you were in it, any idea which thread it was?

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Forgive me if this has been mentioned but if the worker has a horse of their own offer free board along with a good salary, regular days off ( with a relief cleaner please) and appreciate them. If they are a good worker you will want to do all you can to keep them.

I cleaned stalls for many years and the place where I was appreciated and treated fairly was for the most part a job I enjoyed doing and was motivated to do it right. Some people are happy in a simple job like that and do it well. If you want them to stay, you need to pay.

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10 an hour for the listed duties of a BM is nowhere near enough

It depends on where you are and IF you get off days…
or benefits…
to keep good people you have to pay, particularly when the unemployment rate dibs below 5%
that means people are not without jobs for long, and you really have to beat the competition

$10 Canadian = $7.50± US so slightly about US minimum wage. Mandated 2 weeks vacation comes into play after 12 months of employment. Just saying…

Many years ago I got a BM job with a similar description to the that beowolf mentioned, only less riding, more mucking. I was told it paid a little less than one and a half times minimum wage plus housing and board for one horse, which would make it about the equivalent of $10/hr here today. So pay wasn’t good, but not being out extra for a place for my horse and I to live seemed like it would be workable, particularly since I’d just gotten out of the Navy and needed to find both a job and a place to live.

What they didn’t tell me was that they wouldn’t pay me for more than 40 hours a week, no matter how many I worked, and that half of that they would keep to cover the costs of my stall and my room in a shared house. So my pay was capped at 20 hours worth every week.

Understandably, I didn’t stay long. Neither did my replacement, who was also misled about their pay practices. And we both had written contracts, but they were slightly ambiguous, and who can afford a lawyer while getting paid like that? It made more financial sense to just leave.

Better pay is nice, but at the very least pay your people what you agreed to pay them.

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My current barn has kept barn staff for over 8 years. That is amazing to me. I know that they pay fairly well and offer opportunities for holidays (weeks at a time) and variation of work throughout the year. The staff is awesome!

hahaha I’m still thrilled you bumped up this one since I was at a show in Portugal with basically no internet last year so missed it!

And I am 90% certain I know who you are talking about because the ad got messaged to me with a big WTF??! haha but when you don’t really make any money and you’re kinda just living off your inheritance, you can only pay staff so much. And working?! Pfff that’s for poor people.

But I can say that this thread was going on while my boss, whom I love, was paying me not what we agreed on, at all, and since I am not the worst human being and couldn’t just stop taking care of the horses, I didn’t body clip one horse. And I am an obsessive body clipper. and when he asked if I could clip the one for the 7 year old finals, I asked him what he was going to pay me to do that? Because I was literally making 8 dollars a day per horse, while living…not as we discussed, and not receiving any of the additional things I was supposed to be receiving in compensation.

8 DOLLARS. Not an hour, per day, per horse.

I still love him, we are like family, but now he has one horse and no groom.

But @beowulf I will look for the more recent thread.

I should add, I then went to work for an Olympian, who owed her former groom money. She still owes him money. She owes me money. She owes a driver money, her farrier money, she even had one part time girl she was paying by the hour quit and show up with her parents because like @Wayside that girl was “working too many hours”, so she just decided she was going to pay her what she felt like. At least she felt like paying her anything. Of course, that girl threatened to call the police.

Pay your staff. Like, not just a reasonable amount, but also like you have to actually pay them.

@beowulf it was this thread https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…or-should-i-go

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Outside of a few very, very low cost of living areas it’s money that drives employee turnover in the horse industry 110%. In 90% of the country for $10 an hour and no benefits you will get kids, people who are supported financially by their partner, or recent immigrants or people with job limiting cognitive or legal issues or recovering drug addicts or felons. That’s it. I ride at a couple barns and their staff all fall into one of those categories. Mostly the older former addict felon with no drivers license who lives in a crappy trailer behind the barn category as ANY other job locally pays far more.

You can get a job cleaning up dog shit off suburban lawns that pays $15/hr around here. Or you can clean houses and make $15-20/hr plus benefits and tips. I pay my dog walker $25/hr. Heck, we pay our high school interns $18/hr at work!

If my SO was willing to be the sole wage earner I’d love to run a barn. But sadly, he is not :frowning: Something about retiring someday and “fairness”.

Top show barns keep people because they pay more, provide benefits and are able to pass the costs on to their clients. And the clients often give insane tips. Like cars and houses and envelopes full of cash.

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Haven’t read all the replies, so maybe this was stated, and is hopefully stating the obvious (but was a problem at the last place I boarded, and the BO complained frequently about not being able to find/retain good help, so here goes):

Make sure they have what they need to do the job you want, to do it well, and to do it efficiently. Who expects to attract and maintain decent employees for any amount of pay for a job where it’s twice as time consuming and physically demanding to do a job half as well as anyone would like?

Equipment must be in good repair: replace broken pitchforks, keep wheelbarrow tires inflated.

Maintain your facility: plumbing to outdoor paddocks should not be broken all winter. Paddocks should be dragged and have good drainage, especially any pathways to muck piles. Gates, doors, and fences should be in working order and easy to maneuver around.

Communicate your expectations to people: How fast should it take to pick a stall? How often should buckets be scrubbed? How long should it take to do a full feeding? Whose responsibility is XYZ? If there is a problem, what is your preferred process for addressing/resolving it?

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I spent a lot of my teenage years working in a barn with harness horses. To this day, I consider it the best job I ever had. If the pay was enough to sustain a lifestyle above the poverty line, I would still be doing it. Granted, the pay back then wasn’t bad for a teenager in high school - I got paid $40 a day, and it was very. very rare that the day exceeded 4 hours. A lot of the time, we were done within 2-3 hours because we were a fine tuned machine - two of us would muck stalls, two would get horses ready for jogging and the drivers would take them out. They’d bring them back after their work, we’d swap the next horse into the jog cart, cool the horses out and toss them in a turn out to finish cooling out.

It wasn’t the money that made the job worthwhile - I had a great boss and I worked with great people who actually cared about me. I didn’t ask for a lot of time off, but they were very understanding if I needed to study for an exam or if something came up and I had to leave an hour early or something. They were quick to compliment and tell me I was doing a good job, but they were fair when it came to criticism as well. Even though I was just a groom, I was treated with respect and that goes a long way. They were patient as I was learning and never made me feel like I was a burden for asking questions or needing clarification on something. I still remember the time I accidentally turned out a stallion and gelding together. I got confused and thought the stud was a different horse. It could have gone really wrong, if the stud decided to beat the crap out of the gelding. One of the barn managers took me outside and explained why it was important to always know which horse was which, and she explained what could have gone wrong. She didn’t embarrass or belittle me; she educated me. Luckily, there was no problem because the stud decided he didn’t mind that gelding, but it was a good lesson that I never, ever forgot. No one made a big deal out of it, and we all moved on. I never made that same mistake again, because I learned to look for little distinguishing marks on the horses because most Standardbreds tend to be similar colors. In that barn, we had mostly bays and browns, with the occasional chestnut thrown in. Sometimes, it was hard to tell an entire shed row of bay horses apart, because not many of them had any white on them and there weren’t stall plates.

When I had to quit my job to focus on college, I actually cried handing in my resignation. I’m still friends with the people I worked with and it was over 10 years ago. Even now, a good working environment is more important than the wage. I want to feel comfortable with the people I work with and I want to feel valued. Even if it’s the grunge work, it’s nice when the boss takes the time to thank you for your efforts, ask you about your weekend or wish you a good evening before you leave. It’s nice when they take the time to learn about their employees, because it makes the employees feel like more than JUST a name on the payroll.

Quick sidenote: This barn I worked at has had the same core group of people for 15+ years. That’s absolutely mind blowing to me, but goes to show you just how wonderful the boss is. Being able to retain employees for almost 2 decades is almost unheard of in this industry.

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It think you are off to a good start because you have BTDT and you can see things from the employee’s point of view.

In addition to setting things up for efficiency, I suggest you add two more things that so many BOs don’t.

  1. From time to time, Do The Job. IMO, the best bosses are the ones who have walked a mile in their employees’ shoes. So many BOs don’t know what a PITA it is to have, say, a gate that you can’t easily close with a horse in hand or the too-short hose. If you do the job, you won’t make this mistake. If you don’t do the job and don’t know that what you are asking makes more work for your employee when there is an equipment-based solution, you look imperious and uncaring toward your help. After all, every element of work that isn’t made easier by equipment or design uses your employee’s body instead. But if you don’t put your body into the job, you will be imperious out of ignorance!

  2. Ask for/allow your employees to do do the job day in, day out to come to you with suggested improvements. Sometimes, they will have thought of things you hadn’t! And sometimes, they will want to switch things up to suit their style. If it doesn’t hurt the horse management, give 'em some leeway to do the job the way they wish.

Oh, and a third item:

  1. Let employees know the Why behind the stuff you tell them to do that might seem “extra” or fussy (e.g. always lead horses in halters… or rope around the neck or herding 'em loose. Yes, you have to close the gate behind you in the pasture, even if you trust the horse you have and you are in between the horse and the gate. Please feed hay, not grain, first and set up the feeding job to give them a few minutes with hay in their belly before you come around with concentrated feed.)

You know this and it probably pisses you off when your employee does things that disregards your safety or health standards. But there are all different ways of keeping horses AND chances are that the person doing your job didn’t come from so much money and such expensive horses that they learned the Best Practices at the top of an industry. Don’t expect them to know, Tell Them what you want and why it matters.

IME, most people want to do a good job, and most people who would choose barn work really want to do a good job for the animals, especially. I encourage and reward the person who goes out of his/her way on an animal’s behalf. If you always let the barn worker know why you want the horses handled or managed as you do, I think they’ll be willing to do those extras.

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WRT the bold bit… when I was caring for my BOs place while she recovered from quad bypass, the farrier was there one day, watched me, play Jill, going up the hill with pails of water in the quad wagon to fill troughs.
He said he would bring me the bladder his girlfriend had that they did not use that allowed you to put 10s of gallons in it to move, so I could do it in one trip. I was thrilled! And so grateful he noticed the hard work I was doing to do things right…
BO was sitting nearby, and said ‘Nope I had one of those I hate using them!’.

Uh, that’s great lady but YOU are not doing it are you? headdesk SO I’ll just waste more of my time, that I am not getting compensated for, because you dislike a tool someone offered that would speed things up for me? OK

So I guess the caveat is yes, do the job yourself, but also be aware that how you like to do things, or what is easy for you to do, may be cumbersome or not how another would prefer to do it… and if it means the job gets done, who cares how [within reason, of course]. As you stated in the paragraph I italics’ and underlined.

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Ask for/allow your employees to do do the job day in, day out to come to you with suggested improvements.

we used to give the hardest job to the laziest then watched them as they figured out all the short cuts, worked ever time

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There’s a saying that goes something like, “the laziest people are often the smartest - if there is an easier way to do anything, they will find it and become proficient at it.”

I’m not lazy, but I’ve adopted this mind set over the years. I like to work smart, not hard, and have been known to do all sorts of “crazy” things to make a job a little bit easier on me. For example, I used to work at a barn which had this crazy steep hill to get to the lower paddocks. We had to take the Kubota down there multiple times daily to feed, water and check horses. Going down was an issue in winter when it was icy and an issue year round going up, because it was steep enough that the Kubota struggled. If it was muddy, we’d get stuck halfway up and good luck pushing yourself out. So me, being the type of person I am, went looking for an easier and safer solution. On the other side of the farm was a nice, gradual incline, but was blocked by fallen branches and whatnot. So I spent an hour or two clearing away those branches and making sure the path was clean. The path was a little less direct than the slippery incline, but only added about 5 minutes of time on. But it was safer year round because the Kubota no longer struggled or slid. No one had ever bothered to use that route because of the branches in the way.

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Everything Beowulf said. Can’t stress it enough.
One barn I cleaned stalls at lied and told me it took 1.5 hours for one person. Did it three Saturdays with someone helping, and it took three to four hours every single time. The spreader was too small, you had to spread it three times to finish the 26 stalls, and the people who always did Friday’s always conveniently “forgot” four of the stalls so they’d be horrendous. Never again. Just buy an appropriately sized spreader for your number of stalls.

Or another barn where you had to carry full/half full buckets to dum in a specific area 1000ft+ away from the stalls and they didn’t want buckets dumped anywhere else. Stop it.

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