The Cross Country Course

[vineyridge]

Lord Helpus, the eventing test event was, IIRC, in 2010 in the autumn. I don’t think it was last year. It ran at 2* level, and this is supposed to be a 4*. IIRC, the Hong Kong course was very different from the test course. The test event is mostly for footing checks, although I am very likely wrong about that.

According to some of the H & H reporting, the rain this spring was slowing course construction down considerably. They’ve been building up to the very last possible minute.

All of the jumps are either portable or will be removed after XC. From what I understand some of the other British venues will be buying some of them and using them later.

Poor Ronald Zabela is going to be the first person out of the box to ride the course; then one of the US riders goes. It’s a great advantage to be farther down on the start schedule, so the first Team rider doesn’t automatically get a low dressage score to start the day; and on XC feedback on how the course is riding has filtered back to the participants. Zabela isn’t a particularly good dressage rider, so the first US rider (and the first for about the first five teams) will have to take the almost automatic low score. The Brits are very lucky to have drawn the 17th spot. The New Zealanders were even luckier. But if it rains XC, the last riders may be harmed by bad footing.

[JenEM]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;6459063]
No ditch, no banks, no sunken road…no “leaps”…where is the country on this cross country. Oh right, we are in the middle of the city, forgot for a second there.[/QUOTE]

It does look like there’s a (faux?) ditch-and-hedge at 9. 11A is optically confusing from the picture, I’m not sure if it’s an up bank, or what, but it looks like there’s something going on there. And if you look at the shot of the alternate 20B fence, it looks like 20A is a drop. But the depth-type questions do seem relatively sparse.

Its a little hard to tell from some of the photos what’s going on with some of the fences, especially as quite a few looked like works still in progress or not finished, like the undecorated option and the in-process flower cart.

I’d be interested in thoughts from the more experienced on the turf roofed cottages (27A & B). With the turf “roof” on them, what are the odds of some of the horses reading that as ground and trying to bank them?

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

[QUOTE=JenEM;6459570]
It does look like there’s a (faux?) ditch-and-hedge at 9. 11A is optically confusing from the picture, I’m not sure if it’s an up bank, or what, but it looks like there’s something going on there. And if you look at the shot of the alternate 20B fence, it looks like 20A is a drop. But the depth-type questions do seem relatively sparse.[/QUOTE]

Looking at the 11A picture … I think it is a coffin. I hope the picture is more of an optical illustion than for the horses in real life. If you look at the way the brick wall slants out to the right, you can tell it is either a serious drop, or a deep ditch. Also in the picture of 10, you can see the reinforcement on the left side of the ditch.

So there’s been no commentary by athletes on blogs of any kind? We are waiting with bated breath!

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

[QUOTE=monstrpony;6459195]
I didn’t mean to imply that, simply that Arthur is the unfortunate one who pointed out the fact that a particular type of fence could be a problem. So, it became a (perhaps warped) “logical choice” to anticipate the question appearing, and everyone saw it coming, so it ended up being an item in Arthur’s “no” column. Not that it was aimed at him specifically, just that a statue could make a “good” question. If you happen to have forgotten what XC is about, that is.[/QUOTE]

What is the background in this story about Arthur’s preferences?

[pwynnnorman]

My impression: It’s a cross country course for a tractable dressage horse that can jump…and gallop every now and then. (Tractable b/c of the fitness factor.)

Bring in the programmable machines. My money, but not my heart, is on Philip Dutton because I’ve always felt he produces programmable machines.

(Not meant to be a slight! It’s just that his horses – to me, that’s all – never seem to have much personality and they progress up the levels so quickly, with never a hiccup, very good dressage and always so rate-able xc. I can’t remember ever seeing a horse ridden by PD toss its head on an approach.

There are a lot of jumps on this course where a head toss and/or a tug or two could totally blow your line.

Reminds me a bit of mechanical hunters penalized for bucking in the corners or the occasional twisty tail. This course could really penalize the least bit of “personality” on course.

JMHO.

@retreadeventer;6458419

There is nothing “straightforward” I don’t think, except maybe a few fences like 1 and a few on the end of the course. I don’t think this is “easy.”

I was a bit dismayed by this course so far, based on the photos taken.
It looks trappy; overloaded with skinnys; poorly decorated (18a); and formulaic. By that, I mean, all the tables have lousy groundlines, (12, 19) all the skinnies have pushed out groundlines (11b, 14b, 22a, 23) both of which catch a horse out. I dislike unfriendly groundlines personally because I have seen some terrible wrecks on things like hayracks, big oxers in the shade with unseeable groundlines. And skinnies with pushed out take-offs really require BIG efforts and accurate placement – by the time you go late in the order, rots of ruck with the footing, your horse will be making much more effort than the first horses on course due to the worn-away takeoff spots.

It seems inconsistent. (3, 3b, 4), (8c, 9) Massive efforts requiring some real galloping and impulsion immediately preceded/followed by squeezy little showjump efforts. I know that’s the trend, but this is excessive. The decor is a little confusing, sparse, and well, weird. (18a, 23, 28)

The “horse trippers” also seem excessive, the little decorative ground level things in the way of good straight lines to the fences. (26)

Why situate big efforts going straight into the ropes?(14a) You have to know big crowds will be there, why add unneccessary levels of difficulty?

My overall impression on first glance at the pictures as they were taken is this is a classless, weird, difficult and horse unfriendly set of efforts. I am worried about the countries other than the big four teams with experienced horses. This almost looks like an Extreme Obstacle course…I’m thinking we ought to send over a few quarter horses and riders in chaps and western saddles with ropes on the saddle horns to negotiate this…ala RFD TV…

The designer obviously has put all the skinnies in to force glance offs and drivebys of the lesser trained horses and riders. Rather than design for the technical difficulty of a Rolex, Badminton, Burghley and let the quality of the horse and rider shine through.

Of course this is just my opinion!!! Based on some pictures on the internet!!

[Blugal]

pwynnnorman, that is an interesting perspective. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way, and sadly I think I agree.

[nomeolvides]

[QUOTE=NCRider;6459145]
And if the horse mirage jump is there intentionally to hurt a potential American horse’s chances then I hope it catches out the Brits instead.[/QUOTE]
Nice, thanks.

[retreadeventer]

[QUOTE=MrsFitzDarcy&Feliks;6459669]
Looking at the 11A picture … I think it is a coffin. I hope the picture is more of an optical illustion than for the horses in real life. If you look at the way the brick wall slants out to the right, you can tell it is either a serious drop, or a deep ditch. Also in the picture of 10, you can see the reinforcement on the left side of the ditch.

So there’s been no commentary by athletes on blogs of any kind? We are waiting with bated breath![/QUOTE]

They’re waiting to hear what the REAL experts – US – are saying first!
(And I am under no illusions about what MY opinion is worth!) ::~>::

[belambi]

http://360.io/Lz9eVy

[Napoles]

@retreadeventer;6458419

There is nothing “straightforward” I don’t think, except maybe a few fences like 1 and a few on the end of the course. I don’t think this is “easy.”

You are missing my point entirely.
What I was trying to get across (badly obviously) in my post is that the angles of these particular photographs don’t really show elements such as gradients and slopes that make a lot of those fences and combinations difficult.

I saw another set of photographs on another website and they were much more informative, taken from angles that showed the steep inclines and difficult approaches.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Larksmom;6458796]
e to get a look at the spread of that Saturn jump. It is pretty, but if you look at the flags, it is a wide skinny. There appears to be only one place to jump it. Weird looking course.[/QUOTE]

The Saturn fence looks just like a corner fence–option to jump either side…just the corners are rounded on the end…making it even MORE inviting for a run out and making the line that needs to be held even more accurate than a typical corner.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Blugal;6459815]
pwynnnorman, that is an interesting perspective. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way, and sadly I think I agree.[/QUOTE]

I don’t. I’ve known a few of his horses…very opinionated and several not easy rides. He makes them look more ridable than they are are. Lack of head toss is often from a rider with good hands and a eye that is NOT getting in the way of his horse and has a partnership with his horse.

On the course, I think you can’t tell much about the jumps from the photographs without feeling the terrain and the approaches. What I can tell…this will not be a dressage show.

The good combinations will make it look easy…the rest…not so much. Doesn’t look like it will be easy to get a good gallop rhythm but that is what everyone was expecting. I think there will be a lot of tired horses and riders at the end…this course has no let up. And the best…will not be the dressage horses…but will be the catty quick jumpers. The lighter horses that can adjust themselves quickly will get around easier. Horses like Boyd’s and Karen’s will be harder to ride (as they get strong) but if their riders ride like they can…they will be fine.

[Madeline]

@Napoles;6460424

I saw another set of photographs on another website and they were much more informative, taken from angles that showed the steep inclines and difficult approaches.

Link?

[Willesdon]

“no ditch or steps/banks or trakehners” well, they are there. The problem is that the photographs just don’t do justice to the fences and it is not possible to see how influential the terrain will be.

Fence 20 is a drop to a skinny that people were comparing to the leafpit at Burghley yesterday and it would not be out of place on a 4*

There is a ditch at fence (?) 11. It looks like a step up in the photos.

The going was absolutely perfect. As there are only a maximum of 75 horses running I would not expect the ground to cut up much at all, even if it does rain. There has been a specialist sport turf company working on the going for 3 years.

[Napoles]

[QUOTE=Madeline;6460477]
Link?[/QUOTE]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=551886

Thought there were more than this when I looked at it the other day…

[Blugal]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;6460462]
I don’t. I’ve known a few of his horses…very opinionated and several not easy rides. He makes them look more ridable than they are are. Lack of head toss is often from a rider with good hands and a eye that is NOT getting in the way of his horse and has a partnership with his horse.[/QUOTE]

I should clarify my statement. I think it’s great that PD’s horses are so well-trained and in tune with him. Obviously the aim of eventing is not to have our horses tossing their heads all over the place.

What I don’t necessarily like is the course design that is becoming more and more about absolute unquestioning obedience and accuracy, while possibly leaving behind the quality of bravery and allowing the horse to have some of its own thoughts. I appreciate cattiness, of course!

Another thing I just hate is all this emphasis on skinnies and corners - when they are used every 2nd or 3rd fence, I think that is lazy course design.

[caevent]

You know what fence made my hair rise on edge, of all the photos? 18b, the narrow “arrowhead” up bank out of water. Up banks out of water are notoriously difficult to judge, with the spray obstructing the horse’s vision and the drag created by the water. Plus, you add the fact that the nature of a horse’s vision causes them to lose sight of the center of the obstacle in the last stride before takeoff, and the arrowhead effect making their peripheral vision less useful…well, I’m glad there’s an option for that particular fence! I’m really interested to see how it rides in a few days. :yes:

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=caevent;6460703]
You know what fence made my hair rise on edge, of all the photos? 18b, the narrow “arrowhead” up bank out of water. Up banks out of water are notoriously difficult to judge, with the spray obstructing the horse’s vision and the drag created by the water. Plus, you add the fact that the nature of a horse’s vision causes them to lose sight of the center of the obstacle in the last stride before takeoff, and the arrowhead effect making their peripheral vision less useful…well, I’m glad there’s an option for that particular fence! I’m really interested to see how it rides in a few days. :yes:[/QUOTE]

That is the fence I picked out too…really ugly!

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;6460749]
That is the fence I picked out too…really ugly![/QUOTE]

I guess riders are going to have to know their horses and pick their battles. There does seem to be a lot of options.

[RacetrackReject]

@bornfreenowexpensive;6460462

I don’t. I’ve known a few of his horses…very opinionated and several not easy rides. He makes them look more ridable than they are are. Lack of head toss is often from a rider with good hands and a eye that is NOT getting in the way of his horse and has a partnership with his horse.

I have to agree with this. I was at a PD clinic and one horse was acting like a stark raving mad lunatic, and according to his rider (a trainer), this was pretty par for the course. PD hopped on the horse, pointed it towards the jump course and clocked it around like a show hunter. The horse, with it’s rider, had previously been fighting to the jump, over the jump, and trying to bolt away from the jump and PD just refused to get into a battle with it. PD had been telling the rider to let the horse go and try it his way, but that’s understandably hard to do sometimes. PD let the horse make a bid at the jump the first time, it didn’t work out so smoothly for the horse, so at the next jump the horse was a bit like “uumm, tell me what to do here eh?”. It was truly one of the coolest things I have ever seen.