The FEI Won't Give an Inch on Virtual Competitions

[lorilu]

@BigMama1

Huh? How is it elitist?It’s the opposite of elitism - they will be an option available only to the lower levels and not the elites.

How can a governing body sanction an international caliber competition when then is no way to ensure a level playing field or to monitor whether rules are being followed?Different arenas, different environments, different footing, never mind the difficulty in ensuring there is no editing, no way to drug test horse and rider, no monitoring of the warm up, etc. etc. etc.

Virtual competitions have always been an easy, affordable means of grassroots competition at lower levels. They can and will continue to take place - probably with a lot more of them with a lot more entries this year. They can still be judged by certified judges, just not FEI ones.

I was referring to the part of the rule that restricts FEI judges from judging non-sanctioned events, and restricting FEI riders from riding at them. NO ONE said these events should be sanctioned or valid for awards with the FEI or any other International/National group.

[lorilu]

@alibi_18

Well… If it’s more about education, FEI judges are allowed to do online clinics - and other type of educational online stuff.

Just not competitions.

I really don’t get the anger toward the FEI for this…

There are plenty of online competitions already, what’s with the urge to have FEI tests and FEI judges?

Well I for one ride at the FEI level and sure do think it would be nice to ride in one of these at my level… but they are not even permitted to use the tests.

[skydy]

@alibi_18

Well… If it’s more about education, FEI judges are allowed to do online clinics - and other type of educational online stuff.

Just not competitions.

I really don’t get the anger toward the FEI for this…

There are plenty of online competitions already, what’s with the urge to have FEI tests and FEI judges?

I don’t think anyone is angry, and it’s not a big deal. I read the article and was a little surprised that they weren’t going to lighten up a little under the circumstances but, as I posted earlier, I shouldn’t have been surprised.

I’m happy for those folks that are able to arrange fun things to do in a virtual way. This is not dressage, and not FEI, but people are being creative https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…ual-horse-show

[ghst13]

@MysticOakRanch

This isn’t about sanctioning. The rules say an FEI judge CAN NOT judge a non-sanctioned event. Period. So an on-line “show”, a schooling show, anything that is NOT FEI sanctioned. That is why it is elitist - the FEI is telling the big name judges they can NOT judge. And honestly, in regular times, I don’t think that matters - the FEI judges I know are always plenty busy with big shows. But now - why? Why not waive the rule? Even better, why not put out a statement that on-line events are not considered part of the rules. Let’s be realistic, NO governing body is recognizing these - they are just a chance for some fun, for some feedback, during trying times.

WHO cares about a level playing field - there is no recognition! No one is getting their Silver Medal, no one is qualifying for the Olympics, no one is even qualifying for regional championships. So why does it become such a huge issue with the FEI? Here, finally, is a chance for some lower level people to maybe get some feedback from a big name judge.

This is much more about education than it really is about competition. It doesn’t COUNT toward anything official…

I find the athlete restrictions more interesting. An FEI rider cannot ride in a schooling show. So no taking your young horse or a client’s horse to schooling shows for exposure. I’m sure there are plenty of people violating this on a regular basis (many of them probably without realizing it).

[MysticOakRanch]

@ghst13

I find the athlete restrictions more interesting. An FEI rider cannot ride in a schooling show. So no taking your young horse or a client’s horse to schooling shows for exposure. I’m sure there are plenty of people violating this on a regular basis (many of them probably without realizing it).

I assumed the rule was applied to horse/rider teams? So the rider could ride OTHER horses in a schooling show, just not the specific FEI horse? Maybe I’m wrong? Either way, there is a 6 month cooling off period, and that may take care of the riders, since it is beginning to sound like this show season is not happening…

[ghst13]

@MysticOakRanch

I assumed the rule was applied to horse/rider teams? So the rider could ride OTHER horses in a schooling show, just not the specific FEI horse? Maybe I’m wrong? Either way, there is a 6 month cooling off period, and that may take care of the riders, since it is beginning to sound like this show season is not happening…

1. Article 113 - Registration and Eligibility of Athletes and Horses. Points 4-9

4. An Athlete and/or Horse, even if registered with the FEI, is not eligible to participate in an International Event or National Event (and so may not be invited by an OC to such Event or entered by an NF in such Event) if that Athlete and/or Horse has participated, in the six (6) months prior to the first day of the International Event or National Event in question, in an Unsanctioned Event.

The and/or clause doesn’t seem to limit the restriction to pairings. I assume this has been one of those rules that is rarely enforced (except for the fight with Global Champions). Now that the FEI had put a big spotlight on it I wonder if there will be an increase in reported violations.

[alibi_18]

@lorilu

Well I for one ride at the FEI level and sure do think it would be nice to ride in one of these at my level… but they are not even permitted to use the tests.

Ok, so you’re at PSG or above. Or doing the young riders? or horses?

What does one really gain in an online competition?

Wouldn’t it be better to just do a « ride a test » video clinic? or just ride and get comments on whatever you’ve videotaped?

It’s the « competition » part I don’t get…

Most of the learning we do, as riders, is not at the show nor through a test.

[alibi_18]

@ghst13

1. Article 113 - Registration and Eligibility of Athletes and Horses. Points 4-9

4. An Athlete and/or Horse, even if registered with the FEI, is not eligible to participate in an International Event or National Event (and so may not be invited by an OC to such Event or entered by an NF in such Event) if that Athlete and/or Horse has participated, in the six (6) months prior to the first day of the International Event or National Event in question, in an Unsanctioned Event.

The and/or clause doesn’t seem to limit the restriction to pairings. I assume this has been one of those rules that is rarely enforced (except for the fight with Global Champions). Now that the FEI had put a big spotlight on it I wonder if there will be an increase in reported violations.

I don’t know many people who register their horses and/or themselves with the FEI and end up doing schooling shows afterward.
There are many smaller sanctioned shows offering lower levels they could participate in.

One only need FEI registration when doing CDI’s.

[enjoytheride]

I think it’s ridiculous. Nobody’s taking an online horse show during a pandemic seriously. It’s a way for some pros to entertain themselves and us having a cute little online show with some real judges. Then the FEI comes in and kills everybody’s good time.

[enjoytheride]

@alibi_18

Ok, so you’re at PSG or above. Or doing the young riders? or horses?

What does one really gain in an online competition?

Wouldn’t it be better to just do a « ride a test » video clinic? or just ride and get comments on whatever you’ve videotaped?

It’s the « competition » part I don’t get…

Most of the learning we do, as riders, is not at the show nor through a test.

Oh come on. It’s for fun. Because we can’t go to horse shows right now since there’s a pandemic. We have an online “horse show” with some pros getting together and some judges being good natured since they’re all trapped in their homes.

[ghst13]

@alibi_18

I don’t know many people who register their horses and/or themselves with the FEI and end up doing schooling shows afterward.
There are many smaller sanctioned shows offering lower levels they could participate in.

One only need FEI registration when doing CDI’s.

Maybed is different but there are plenty of eventers who ride in FEI divisions and go to unrecognized shows on a regular basis. Often they are there on client horses but sometimes they are getting their own young horses or sale horses out for experience.

Someone on one of the threads on this board mentioned they had ridden in a CDI-Am and wasn’t sure they hadn’t gone to a schooling show sometime in the preceding 6 months so it happens.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[BigMama1]

@lorilu

Well I for one ride at the FEI level and sure do think it would be nice to ride in one of these at my level… but they are not even permitted to use the tests.

And nobody is supposed to use USEF tests at schooling shows either, but everybody does. FEI tests will still be ridden in virtual shows for fun, just not judged by FEI judges and with the scores not counting towards anything.

[BigMama1]

@MysticOakRanch

This isn’t about sanctioning. The rules say an FEI judge CAN NOT judge a non-sanctioned event. Period. So an on-line “show”, a schooling show, anything that is NOT FEI sanctioned. That is why it is elitist - the FEI is telling the big name judges they can NOT judge. And honestly, in regular times, I don’t think that matters - the FEI judges I know are always plenty busy with big shows. But now - why? Why not waive the rule? Even better, why not put out a statement that on-line events are not considered part of the rules. Let’s be realistic, NO governing body is recognizing these - they are just a chance for some fun, for some feedback, during trying times.

WHO cares about a level playing field - there is no recognition! No one is getting their Silver Medal, no one is qualifying for the Olympics, no one is even qualifying for regional championships. So why does it become such a huge issue with the FEI? Here, finally, is a chance for some lower level people to maybe get some feedback from a big name judge.

This is much more about education than it really is about competition. It doesn’t COUNT toward anything official…

Is that a new thing for FEI judges? What about USEF judges? In Canada only the two lowest categories of dressage judges are allowed to judge non-sanctioned shows. Has been like that forever, so it doesn’t seem outrageous to me that FEI judges aren’t allowed either.

[skydy]

@BigMama1

Is that a new thing for FEI judges? What about USEF judges? In Canada only the two lowest categories of dressage judges are allowed to judge non-sanctioned shows. Has been like that forever, so it doesn’t seem outrageous to me that FEI judges aren’t allowed either.

It’s not new.

[crthunder]

@alibi_18

I don’t know many people who register their horses and/or themselves with the FEI and end up doing schooling shows afterward.
There are many smaller sanctioned shows offering lower levels they could participate in.

One only need FEI registration when doing CDI’s.

I’ve seen show schedules for FL schooling shows with quite a few riders that have also done CDI’s etc. It seems like that is against this rule too? I don’t have any plan for CDI competitions myself but I would find it fun to “show” my OTTB in a virtual show right now since who knows when real shows will resume. And we are prepping for GP so I don’t feel the need to do national level tests either.

[alibi_18]

@ghst13

Maybed is different but there are plenty of eventers who ride in FEI divisions and go to unrecognized shows on a regular basis. Often they are there on client horses but sometimes they are getting their own young horses or sale horses out for experience.

Someone on one of the threads on this board mentioned they had ridden in a CDI-Am and wasn’t sure they hadn’t gone to a schooling show sometime in the preceding 6 months so it happens.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

CDI-Am, you don’t need a FEI passport.

I’m not sure about CCI1* Eventers, but maybe we are not talking about the same thing.
Like in dressage, FEI tests are used at National and Regional shows, riders/horses don’t need a FEI passport to do a GP test.

[alibi_18]

@enjoytheride

Oh come on. It’s for fun. Because we can’t go to horse shows right now since there’s a pandemic. We have an online “horse show” with some pros getting together and some judges being good natured since they’re all trapped in their homes.

I’m not against having fun - I just don’t see the point in paying for a « competition » that’s worth… nothing?

What’s wrong with clinics? Isn’t that even more fun?
You’d have even more feedback. You could video yourself doing any test/freestyle.

There is a talk serie I follow with FEI judge 5* Cesar Torrente - That’s interesting, and free.

Which FEI judge wanted to do the competition?

[alibi_18]

@crthunder

I’ve seen show schedules for FL schooling shows with quite a few riders that have also done CDI’s etc. It seems like that is against this rule too? I don’t have any plan for CDI competitions myself but I would find it fun to “show” my OTTB in a virtual show right now since who knows when real shows will resume. And we are prepping for GP so I don’t feel the need to do national level tests either.

There are virtual shows already in places where you can do your GP tests. It just won’t be judged by an FEI judge.

[ghst13]

@alibi_18

CDI-Am, you don’t need a FEI passport.

I’m not sure about CCI1* Eventers, but maybe we are not talking about the same thing.
Like in dressage, FEI tests are used at National and Regional shows, riders/horses don’t need a FEI passport to do a GP test.

The eventing examples I found in less than 5 minutes of searching were listed on the FEI website as active members with results at the CCI 2* and CCI 3* levels. I looked at eventing because it was easy to pull the results from some major venues that also host unrecognized horse trials and I’m familiar enough with the names to easily choose who were likely FEI members.

I’m not as familiar on the dressage side to easily pick out obvious examples, but personally believe there are active FEI members out there also participating in unrecognized competitions.

Personally I think FEI made a misstep on coming out so publicly and strongly against virtual shows. I’m guessing this is a rule that isn’t frequently monitored, but if it’s going to be applied evenly than they should be cracking down on schooling shows as well.

[alibi_18]

Just to make sure…

A CDI is a different game than a National or a Regional show.

You can ride from Intro to GP at most Regional and National shows. You don’t need a FEI passport.

You can only ride from PSG and up at CDIs. You do need a FEI passport. *Except for CDI-Am which doesn’t ask for a passport.

I highly doubt a CDI would organise a show with a schooling show on the side.

A National or a Regional show could undoubtedly do so.