I wonder how they (new associates in general) are being compensated. If the practice owner wants to work 24x7 that’s fine because they get all the profit from it. But if they hire an associate, how does that work? Is it hourly, salaried? Is there some kind of profit sharing?
More people should prioritize work life balance. The example above of not wanting to work at all on the day they have an early afternoon meeting makes sense to me. What are the chances they’ll always be able to leave on time, given what we’ve already discussed about overworked, over-scheduled vets?
The practice offered profit sharing and hours were set. You made a lot of assumptions about the practice, none are true. They had eight vets working and also owned a separate emergency clinic, so nobody was on call 24-7. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the techs who profit-shared got close to a million dollars when the practice was sold. Not bad when you make $15-$17/per hour! The vet who wanted to take the entire day off for a 5:00 club meeting was able to leave early, but insisted she needed the entire day. The owner of the practice really tried to be flexible with his staff.
I totally understand wanting a reasonable work-life balance. However, veterinary medicine is probably one of the fields that would make it hard. The newest hires will likely be given the least prority regarding schedules. Sometimes, you need to sacrifice as well when you are getting started.
My apologies, I highlighted the part that interested me but I was more musing about the whole thread, not accusing this specific practice of not treating people well.
Locally there is a husband and wife practice who treats everything from small animals to horses to the big cats at the local animal safari attraction. They live and breathe that practice. They had an associate for a while and I always wondered how that actually worked. How could they possibly motivate someone who is not an owner to work like they do, and how would they feel when the associate left on time at the end of their assigned work day.
All of the vets I use, small and large animal, have set office hours. In the large animal practice, they will have one vet on call and they rotate so nobody gets stuck doing all of the after-hours work. The small animal practice I use sends everyone to the emergency vet after hours, no exceptions. It is different if it is a small family-owned practice or no after-hours clinic is available. It certainly takes dedication and a passion for what you do.
There is a lot of variability in compensation structures. I don’t know true statistics but many are on a production and salary system where you get a base and then anything over a percentage of your production. And your production is comprised of actual services, diagnostics, and then meds etc. Some places have negative accrual production so if you don’t make a certain amount you lose money which can really screw people when they need to take time off. There is also solely production based or solely salary.
Having set office hours doesn’t mean you leave at that time. It just means you don’t see appointments after that. I know vets that stay 2-3hrs after close to finish records, do call backs, etc on the small animal side.
Same. My vet is amazing about using FaceTime and advising me if it’s worth her trip or if I already have the needed supplies to treat.
I always text a video or pic if it’s borderline in my mind whether I need stitches or lameness. And then she will follow up with FaceTime with questions, etc. then determine if she needs to make a trip.
Mmmm, I can’t help but think there was a lot more to this than what you were told, though my thinking that is colored by recency bias because I recently had a very capable DVM friend who thinks highly of her boss (also an older man) tell me that he was recommending something that is … absolutely not standard of care for that particular type of cancer. It happened to be the cancer that is my area of expertise, as a <6 months from PhD almost-doctor, and I was honestly kind of horrified by what he was apparently telling clients and mentoring his younger vets to do. It was the kind of thing where if I were practicing, I would have a very difficult time remaining with a clinic that wasn’t staying up to date on current best practices to that extreme.
JMO, but I’d be willing to bet real money that there’s more to this story than what you told here, regardless of whether it’s a comparable situation to what I just described or not. I really doubt it’s just a “kids these days don’t want to work hard.”
I only know what I was told. Having known my friend for 30 years, along with his success as a vet, it’s unlikely he would suggest something that is not the current standard.
You can be skeptical if you like.Unless you run a highly successful and popular practice, you are making some big assumptions about the challenges faced today.
My large animal vet was at my barn this morning suturing a wound that needed a drain and etc. (Not my horse this time!). I took a minute to thank her and the other vet in the practice for being there for us, for respecting us and for putting up with our questions. She (bless her) thanked me for respecting their time and expertise. She looked at me and said, “if you say we’re needed now, we know that we are.” I’m so very fortunate that they are available for our horses.
That this is your response is really kind of hilarious, tbh.
You really don’t think there could have been any reason that you weren’t privy to that contributed to the new grad leaving?
You’re right. I bet it’s just that new grads these days don’t wanna work hard and don’t like being told what to do. I’m sure there were absolutely no underlying factors that you don’t know of in that situation, and it was presented to you exactly as it happened.
idk why I even bothered saying anything lol, clearly I know nothing about the field, or young people, or old people! Certainly not anything about the mindset of new DVM grads
Are you a graduate of vet school? Is that why you are so defensive and rude? I’m just relating what my friend told me about the practice and this ONE particular person, who had been difficult ever since they were hired. My friend has no reason to exaggerate or lie.
Apparently you think every new grad from vet school is super-brilliant, amenable, and more knowledgeable than someone who has sucessfully practiced for 40 years.
Yes, you should drop out of the conversation because you really don’t know what you are talking about regarding THIS situation. You are also making a lot of assumptions about what I think of young vets. I gave you one example and you jump to the conclusion that I think all new grads are lazy and unmotivated. Not true at all.
I think here is missing that all that was mentioned is to consider, that is give a second thought to all that may be part of that story that may have not been said.
No need to ask for credentials, common sense is enough to add other opinions to any statement or story told.
I’m not defensive or rude. I merely pointed out that there’s likely more to the situation than you were told, and gave an example of something that I recently saw - something that would make many of my colleagues, young or old, feel that they were incompatible with a clinic’s perspectives and approach to medicine and that they would need to leave. That also is a clinic where the most senior vet has been in the field for ages and is well-regarded in their area. It didn’t change that there was a major incompatibility being described.
I never said that all new grads are “more knowledgeable,” so I don’t see why you got hyperbolic there. But I do think sometimes there are lapses in keeping up with current advances in the field by people who have been practicing for a really long time. Again, this is not a commentary on your vet specifically. But I just don’t subscribe to the idea that people who have been practicing for a long time automatically have all the right answers over people who just came out of school. Everyone can bring benefit to the field and should respect what their colleagues can contribute. But it certainly doesn’t translate to me as “older vet right, new vet wrong” every time.
I’m honestly not sure why you’re so upset that I suggested that there’s more to the story. It’s not a commentary on your vet, or on you - or on whatever doctor left your practice. I don’t know any of you. I’m simply saying that there’s usually more than meets the eye, and it’s highly unlikely, IMO, that you know everything about that situation - but that I doubt it’s just “young vet, high maintenance, absolute no incompatibility or contribution to the situation by her work partner.” I give people more benefit of the doubt than that.
I’m glad you think so highly of your vet and seem to have such a good relationship with them that you feel like you need to leap to their defense like this, even over a slight that I don’t think was ever actually made lol. Vets can use clients who stand up for them.
This person is not my vet, just a long time friend. Since the topic was about the great veterinary shortage, I shared some of the challenges this friend faced with hiring and retaining vets. There are many factors that have been discussed in this thread. I added one more.
Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. From Brock Veterinary Clinic
After 12 years of college, 3 degrees, and a becoming a specialist in horse surgery…… Dr. Abbi Brock has finished her surgery residency…. She is coming home to be a part of our practice.
You are very confused about what an exam entails. An exam fee covers my assistant or LVT getting a thorough history from you, my nose to tail physical exam, my discussion of normal and abnormal findings and repeating historical questions with you, and my recommendations for diagnostic tests and treatments including the provision of a further financial estimate. None of this involves “smiling at you”. I’m not sure if you were trying to be flippant, but perception of value is a huge problem in our industry and your post perpetuates the issue.
No. No, Just no. False, Nothing could be further from the truth. YOU try doing 4-5 euthanasias EVERY day (my record is 14 on one particularly horrid Christmas Day) and YOU cry at all of them. Judging a vet’s professional quality by YOUR perception of their emotion or lack thereof is DESPICABLE. I am there to advocate for your ANIMAL, not YOU. If you need someone to cry with you, seek a family member, friend, or a therapist. If I cried with every owner over every euthanasia, I WOULD BE SUICIDAL. And yes I am shouting because this post is that level of inappropriate.
Since you quoted me, I thought you were being specific.
