Oh gee - 3’0 and 3’6" classes BIG WHOOP - Now they are giving LOTS OF PRIZE MONEY for mediocrity. Just great.
EVEN THE OPEN HUNTERS WILL BE JUMPING 3’6"???
SAD SAD SAD.
Good idea; lousy execution. Did they mention the entry fees?
Wow- this sounds exciting! Can’t wait to hear more- like entry fees, qualifying??, limiting entries??, when + where??. What a nice thing for people who do not want to do the point chasing thing for year-end awards.
AHC and VTrider- we must all be long lost “siblings”…
Kudos slugger!! Right to the point.
Well, here is the voice of ignorance speaking again. You know, the one who shakes when she has to jump a cross-rail. 
However, I have seen so many threads about 3’ vs. 3’6". I don’t have any opinions on this matter, because I obviously don’t know enough. But, could someone please explain to me why 6" makes as big a difference as it obviously does? Thanks in advance!
[This message has been edited by LOUISE (edited 10-05-2000).]
I don’t think that people are against the 3’ divisions, they just want these divisions to provide a better foundation for the rider to increase his or her skills and possibly move up to another division in the future. The 3’ courses are NOT technically demanding, which puts a huge emphasis on the “perfect horse.” You can get a little close or a little gappy, and if you have a nice horse, he will still be able to jump well. Bigger fences make your optimum takeoff spot smaller, meaning the rider has to get the horse to the right spot to get a pretty jump. My opinion is that the 3’ divisions need to be modified, or there needs to be another division where the fences are not yet 3’6, but the courses are more difficult and the rider’s ability is judged as well, maybe on a 50-50 or 60-40 basis. This would encourage the person with the less than perfect horse to improve their riding. With enough hard work, anyone could become succesful in this division without having to spend 6 figures on a 3’ hunter.
I’m not offering this as an absolute solution, it is just an idea to improve horsemanship so it is less a competition regarding who spends the most.
I’m a hardworking adult too AHC - I only get to ride a few times a week depending on my job which sometimes requires horrific overtime. I actually agree with Magnolia in that it may be more of a psychological barrier with some people. The average horse that likes jumping can jump 3’6 easily. The only ones I know that have difficulty with it are those that are older or have joint problems, arthritis etc. I don’t think the 6 inches between 3’and 3’6 makes much of a difference to the horse. However, the next 6 inches up to 4 feet - is a HUGE difference.
I am wondering too at expenses - are the 3’6 horses really that much more expensive? To me if I were to buy a new horse, I would expect it to jump 3’6 easily, since the horse should always be able to jump bigger than you show. Or are these hunters so expensive because of their ability to “cover up” the mistakes their riders make at 3’ feet aside from their pretty appearance and perfect jumping form?
Cactuskate - excellent point on the illusion thing - 3’6 looks huge in a tiny indoor, but in a open field, it looks fine.
Secondly - I’m from the school that says you practice bigger than you show. Do today’s 3’ riders only jump 3’ or do they do 3’6 at home? My trainer always made me jump a huge jump before a show - there, you just jumped 3’6, now 2’6 will look tiny.
BTW, I’m all for 3’ classes, but how about a classic class where maybe they throw in a 3’6 or 3’3 jump, to start getting the more experienced thinking about bigger jumps. Sure, a course of 3’6 maybe daunting, but maybe you could raise a nice approcahable jump to 3’6 for a special classic class for amateurs. Any horse that can jump a 3’ course can do a 3’6 jump every now and again.
Well, Bertie, I just read this message, and (not that I have anything against VA), but… Rats. I just had the most marvelous thought last night as I was trapped in that lovely Atlanta traffic (in other words, I had about 5 hours to come up with this one).
OK, here we go… How about having this at the KY horse Park (centrally located for at least everyone east of the rockies), during some major event like perhaps the the KY Horse Park World Championships for eventing held every spring? Could this be something held in one of the rings on Saturday, after the cross country is run? It seems like a great chance to show a large “horse appreciative” crowd another side of the sport, and might be able to grab a small portion of the airtime that KY gets… And of course, all the hunter/jumper people would get to watch some really great eventing.
So what does everyone think?
Wow this is great!! 3’6" is perfect because it allows the 1st years and A/O and Juniors a chance and the only other height above that in the hunters anyway are the 3’9" 2nd years and 4’ Workings, so it is a great medium. and wow 3’, what a great regognition for 3’ Pre-greens and Child/Adults. Another great event to look forward to without feeling like you have to pound away for year end regognition.
These are the type of events that promote quality without overdoing the showing.
I think it is so wonderful, and I’m glad because it recognizes the 3’ horses, who are not in the Pre-Greens as vital elements in show world. 3’ is so important not only because of the revenue, but because it allows for so many options.
I have also noticed a tendency for people on this board to criticize the 3’ divisions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, it was once posted and I agree that many of the critics, NOT ALL, but many just jump on the bandwagon and they are the “wannabes” or those who are jealous because they couldn’t even attempt to be competitive at 3’. In fact I find it strange that one person on this BB who rides at a local MD. barn and could never hope to shine in the 3’ft. at the rated venues even voices her negative opinion at all! I’m sorry I love diversity and a good heated discussion can make us all really think about things and encourages those who are so inclined to actually follow through with ideas and implementations. I however, cannot stand hypocrisy when masked by a self righteous sword.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cfs:
AHC and VTrider- we must all be long lost “siblings”…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When is our famly reunion?? 
Wouldn’t it be awesome for an A/A rider to win and beat a horse that ends up being Ch at indoors later in his career, to show that although A/A riders may not jump 3’6, it’s OK, and I’d rather score an 85 on a three foot course than a 60 on a three foot 6 course.
I must disagree with Snowbird when she says that the 3’ is not/should not be a rider’s ultimate goal. For many of us who work full time, have limited financial means for showing and have horses and can ride three days a week at most, it is all we can aspire to without compromising our safety. I would love to do the 3’6" someday but at the moment, I can’t afford the horse, I don’t have the time to practice and get comfortable at that height because I didn’t jump it regularly as a kid, and at 38 and single, no one earns the money but me and right now I can’t increase my risk. Mistakes at 3’6" are more costly than those at 3’.
Some of us A/A riders are in it to do well and improve, but mostly to have fun! I personally do not feel that we should be the target of the attacks about the loss of the 3’6" divisions! In fact, if the sport begins to do less for the 3’ riders, the number of people participating will decrease at a time when we are all bemoaning the lack of interest in equestrian sports.
Having said all of this, I do think changes need to be made. As Snowbird said in her post yesterday about the increment system, it is largely responsible for the demise of the B and C shows. If we can push to change it, we should. Equitation should be judged with form following function not the reverse. Until then, I don’t know whether trainers will be encouraged to teach horsemanship and develop basic skills in their riders instead of just helping them find a fancier horse so they can move up before they are really ready. A hunter with a beautiful, even, forward pace shouldn’t be penalized for not getting the prescribed number of strides around a course, kids should be taught about horse care and horse health and not just put up on a horse to ride and take no responsibility beyond that. If we want to do better internationally, we have to raise the level of jumper competition in this country, have qualifiers for top Grands Prix classes, etc.
I believe that we can work toward some of these changes that will help teach riders to be horsemen, increase the level of competition and even increase the spectator base for the jumpers without blaming the 3’ divisions and 3’ riders. We should celebrate things like the Legacy Cup!
NorthEast, you have made an interesting point about cross overs and the limitations being set.
But it also got me thinking about what maybe the industry has outgrown. The Amatuer OWNER Hunter. Did it not evolve when the divisions were at 3’6" for 1st YR and 3"9" for 2nd YR and then 4’ for Regular. There were not many 3’ to 3’3" divisions then. Was it not a place for the non-professional to have a level playing field? Not to have to compete against the pro’s?
So in today’s show world, what does OWNERSHIP have to do with the amateur division? Maybe we could get more riders moving up into what some seem to think are the “reputable” divisions by taking away the ownership requirement.
Can someone explain to me the need for ownership if it is an amateur division?
[This message has been edited by Cactuskate (edited 10-05-2000).]
Both Jair and AHC have brought vaild important points here.
Jair said the desire to be good enough to do the three six was a huge motivating factor for him to keep working when learning to ride. It was for me as well, and probably many others. Jair, that motivating factor still exists- I don’t think any rider wants to do the three foot forever! However, there are some factors that seem to have been overlooked in this discussion.
Firstly, timelines. Many amateur riders live and work in a metropolis. They commute to their barns, generally at least forty minutes away NOT during rush hour, once or twice a week as time allows. Riding once a week is simply not enough practice to be in proper form to jump a three six course for the majority of amateurs. It would be unsafe for horse and rider. That doesn’t mean they want to compete at three foot forever- it means for the foreseeable future they will ride and hone their skills at three foot. Fortunately, the three foot is a competitive division and showing will not get blase while they work towards their 10 year goal of doing three six. Or their 15 year goal. Or their goal of one day owning a three six horse for their child to compete. Or, heck, for a professional to compete in the first years and for them to groom on and trail ride. These people deserve respect and accolades too. They participate in something they love. Something we all love and care deeply about. 10 years may seem like forever, but it is in fact a reasonable timeline for goal achievement for people affected by circumstance. Which, most of us are.
Something else that no one has mentioned is that for many people, their horses are their pets, too. Like people, horses have limitations. I know so many amateurs who love their horses more than the sport and are just pleased to able to compete with their partner and friend regardless of what level it is they they compete on. Some horses are too young to do three six, some have medical issues that would make three six too jepeordizing to their health, some don’t have the mindset to believe they can jump that high, and some are too old to be able to take the physical stress in stride. No one would trade in a beloved person for such reasons, is it reasonable to expect a person to give up a beloved pet?
As I think someone mentioned, if the people who compete at three foot were forced to either do the three six or not show at all the majority would most likely find something else to do. We bemoan the lack of sponsership, spectators, people interested in horse showing, and competitors in three six plus classes yet we want to exclude a huge group of people simply because of the fence height they chose to jump.
We’re cutting off noses to spite faces on this issue. Where do three six riders come from? They come up from three foot. They don’t grow on trees or get delivered to Harrisburg by stork. If we foster this contempt for the three foot hunter divisions we are ensuring the demise of the sport of show hunters in America.
DMK and Slugger - I completely agree with your views on this subject. As I’ve stated on other threads, I think there are too many people who mistakenly believe that “you are what (height)you jump.”
So, someone competing at 3’ is somehow less talented, brave, trained, etc. than someone competing at 3-6 and up.
Hmmmm, now are these the same people who are complaining about trainers warming up competitors horses, and the masses of (medicated)dead quiet hunters at shows?
Am I the only one who thinks that the mindset of “higher = better rider” is possibly the cause of many of the things that many of us dislike about this sport?
I have seen firsthand how people who have more financial resources (thus the push-button horse or one that the trainer rides 5 days a week for them) and yes, they are doing 3-6. Many times they look down on the people that are riding at 3’, but doing it on more difficult - less automatic horses.
Maybe we should ask ourselves who is the “real” horseperson in that situation? Who is likely to continue to ride and support showing for years to come and who will be on to the next hobby five years from now?
