Wow I start to love this thread!! So there are a lot of people in the US who used this book as well. Now I do have another question. Do you all think it gave you kind of a complete picture of how to ride and train a horse and why you do it how you do it???
Because I admit I did not think about the book for years and years… But lately I started to wonder what the book did for me?? And I will order one of the newer editions right now 
I haven’t read that book but should and will do so, great thread! I regularly read and reread Kurt Albrecht’s “Principles of Dressage,” that’s my go to resource.
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Yes, as I said this really helped me in the 90s, and the basics are the basics. When the “deep” stuff came out (not to get a tangent) I was very appreciative of my foundations.
Training scale, back to front. I use these things daily.
However, I’m more of a kinesthetic (?) learner, so I learn the best by doing.
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Ok I just ordered the yellow version of 1985 because I think thats the closest to the version I am used to, and also I preordered the newest version in order to be able to compare them.
When I was a teenager, our riding club organized a test for the bronze medal and in order to prepare for the theoretical part, we all met weekly and everybody had to do a little speech about one chapter of the book. This chapter was then discussed. We really loved these sessions and some kids put a lot of work into it.
So my idea would be. What about if we would do something similar.
Everybody who wants to could summarize a chapter in his own words and then we could discuss it and maybe what it means, how we understand it and how we experience it ourselves…
This way it would be a lot more fun to go through the book and it might be helpful for everybody…
Manni, you might enjoy this quote. It is Susan Miesner comparing her first visit to East Germany shortly after the Berlin wall came down, to a visit several decades later.
“It was an adventure. East Germany was in horrible shape. We went to the four big studs and it was amazing, thirty years ago everybody was riding the same. One had more talent, one had less, but they all used the same riding methods. Thirty years later when I went again to what is now called the New Germany, I was amazed, again. In my seminar I had about eight horses, there were about 150 people in attendance, and it was still the same, because the trainers in that part of Germany, teach the same methods – always on the classical principles. And the horses were great – I mean they weren’t fantastic Bundeschampionate horses, but they were well ridden, the riders all understood the training scale. They knew that the most important things are rhythm and relaxation. It was so much fun.”
.
The whole article is excellent. It’s at
http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2017/03/susanne-miesner-and-the-threats-to-the-german-principles/
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Thank you DownYonder!! That was very nice of you!
I lived in East Germany for 20 years after the wall came down and although I don’t like Susanne Miesner I do agree with her article.
In East Germany they had very limited access to books so they preserved the old principles longer then West Germany did and that was great!!
by the way I just stumbled about an article about K.B http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/201…ining-a-horse/
and he is also talking about the book… He is the Generation who grew up with it…
New paperback edition available from Amazon on August 14th
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I’d be down for that!
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So my idea would be. What about if we would do something similar.
Everybody who wants to could summarize a chapter in his own words and then we could discuss it and maybe what it means, how we understand it and how we experience it ourselves…
yes because discussions with Op are always positive and productive!
Ok I copied this part over from the other thread. And I think I already got the first input. from Big Mama1.
I am totally excited about getting the books and discuss about them. Maybe even comparing the older and newer edition.
I was thinking today to start writing something already but maybe I should wait till the book arrives… Because I think something really really important is “why was this book written”…
Most books nowadays are written in order to make some money. That means, they are written in a way to make people read them.
But this book was written in order to create a common core for all the soldiers in the cavallerie. The intention of this book was to teach the soldiers to care well for their horses and to obey all the orders they got in the same way. So the book did not care about any feelings or fashion streams, it was written in a very practical and easy to understand way.
That made it in a way very very tough to read but I think compared to now, there were a lot less problems in our lessons at those times.
And another amazing thing is the way it looks at horses. At those times the soldiers were dependent on their horses. They spend a lot of time with them and knew them well and needed to keep them happy in a way but they also needed to use them very efficiently because they were needed for the war. I think this is a great approach and IMO it changed in present times??? but maybe I am wrong…
See, those would be my first thoughts about the book and it would be so much fun to hear your thoughts…
And regarding Big Mamas concern that it sounds like you need to force the horses to do things…
There are always bad and good trainers, but the book does not encourage you to force the horses.
You (as a soldier in the book) are responsible to know your horse and to know what you can expect from him. On the other hand the horse needs to trust you and understand you in order to perform correctly. Force only occurs because of misunderstandings. I believe these soldiers spend so much time with their horses that they knew them… Today we spend a lot less time with our horses. That is probably a problem.
I think the book calls for consistency which is something horses love. They cannot understand human craziness. They love routines
Manni why are you dragging me into a thread that I wasn’t even participating in and misrepresenting what I did say in the other thread?
i have never read this particular book and said nothing about it promoting forcing horses to do something. I said 20 years ago I was taught (by German trained coaches) to MAKE the horse do something and not to give until the horse gives. Nowadays most good trainers seem to prefer ASKING the horse to do something, not MAKING it, and giving first as a test to see the horse’s response.
I do prefer that second method and said so - to which you very rudely suggested that if I employed the first method instead I wouldn’t have behaviour issues with my horse, something that came out of yet another completely different thread.
That comment, along with yours to another poster about MAKING an older, sore, and out of shape horse do something beyond his physical capabilities that day, no matter how much he resisted, made me conclude that YOU support the first method, rather than the second. It has nothing to do with the book since I’ve never read it so please leave me out of this particular discussion. Thank you.
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I had this book back in the 80’s. It is a good, basic outline to the German system. I think I gave it to an instructor friend of mine. I’ve read most of the “classic” books and moved on. I do love the Old Masters and take a bit from each one I have studied (NO will probably always be my favorite) but once I realized that the horses I worked with hadn’t read the books or fit into a system I was much more happy.
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Absolutely. The classics are valuable but some training approaches have evolved in a positive way.
Those of us who have been around for decades had the old cavalry types- my way or highway trainers ( to the horse) - when we were young and we learned a lot-
but I think training has progressed beyond that in a good way.
take a bit from each one
yes
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My base is still classical german dressage, but I have found for many horses riding with so much driving makes the necks stifferr and puts them over the balance point onto the forehand.
I will always use the training pyramid and foundation, but I have to ride a bit softer and do more flexion work. So I agree, yes, that things evolve I have a more nuances approach than I did in the early 90s. It was hard at first, but then I realized being open was best for my horses. You have to know the rules but then learn when to mix it up.
You decided to answer to my post in the other thread and I agree with you that there are trainers who are too forceful and overwhelm the horses. But I hope that discussing the book will show that it’s not the book which promotes that.
That’s an interesting point of view and I hope that comparing the newer edition with the older one will give some information about this. I know the German Federation updated it all the time and I never read the updates so now I am curious
Thank you for the input and I look forward to read the chapters which will talk about this!!
As soon as I saw the cover of this book, I knew that I have it in my library and probably read it 30 years ago. The enthusiasm on this thread makes me want to reread it. I am a person who lives with old stuff 24/7. I appreciate the quality of vintage and antique craftsmanship. I have more trust in knowledge when it was presented without an agenda. I am not speaking of all incidences, but those that apply to me personally. I think we can agree that in today’s world, we, those living in a more prosperous society, want instant gratification. Because of this attitude, we cause so many of our own problems. Training horses used to be a slow process. Now, horses and training can be so expensive and owners want to rush the training so they can start winning, making money, taking pride, enjoying competition,…whatever the reason why the horse is in training, that is the “want” to succeed and do so expediently. I think books like this give good common sense, sound reasoning, steps to take so the horse understands what is expected and for the rider, understands why each step builds on the next step. That foundation that endures throughout the lifetime of the horse. I believe that a horse brought up with this slow building of foundation has a greater mental ability to accept most new situations. Great thread idea.
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Why are we looking to a German riding book when we have essentially analogous information in “The (US) Cavalry Manual Horsemanship and Horsemastership?”
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Great idea!! open a thread about it!! Maybe we can compare the books!!
