THE suspension list

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
You have IV injections and you have IM injections. The last time I saw a trainer try to give an IV injection, the carotid artery was hit, the horse flipped over and went into convulsions, and the only way the horse lived was because the vet happened to be driving up the road about 1/2 mile away
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gosh, a vet happened to nick the carotid on one of my horses (he lived, but that whole side of his neck is history). D’ya suppose with this Sample Size of exactly ONE incident we should not allow vets to give IV shots?

Zona - to answer your question, as some pointed out, it is far safer to give banamine IV (assuming you KNOW how to give IV shots) and we won’t even get into IV bute. You just don’t even waive a shot of bute near muscle tissue.

So yes, technically IM is an easier shot to learn to give correctly (but not that much easier), but if the substance can cause grave damage if given IM, then that’s obviously a risk.

And yes, Midge, we do have a winner!

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[keljo]

I didn’t read all 50+ pages, but (as I posted on the “8 pm drug list” thread) I am very troubled by people giving PRESCRIPTION medications to their animals not on their vet’s advice/consultation/or even knowledge. Even if “another horse had a similar issue, and this is what the Dr. gave”, unless you have the DVM after your name, I don’t think you fully understand

1. that this situation may be different
2. drug interactions, side effects, etc, etc
3. long-term effects of the drugs
   For example, dexamethasone is a potent anti-inflammatory–do YOU know that regular use of it affects a whole litany of hormone levels (cortisol, etc), enzyme levels, etc?

And do YOU pop some Soma when you have a sore muscle (but Robaxin is okay for the horses?), or maybe pop a few steroids (Prednisone?) because you “may” get sore running a 10K this weekend? My guess is-- probably not…

[mcd]

re: DMK - I’m sorry, but I really don’t believe cheaters (students) cheat beacuse teachers don’t know how to teach. I really believe that cheaters will cheat even if they know all the answers because they do it for precisely one reason - to see if they will get caught. In school, there is a much more likely chance they will get caught because the numbers are much smaller relative to the numbers of horses we test at shows. But I would have to agree with other posters here that if we substantially increase the number of horses we test, we will substantially increase the number of cheaters we catch. Surely this might do something to discourage the practise? All it takes (like anything else in this world, especially the horse world) is more money. Charge more, test more, catch more. Nobody would implement that though!

mcd.

[slp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RzB:
Life isn’t fair, so why should horse showing be? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheating at any sport is wrong ; if everyone just rolled over and accepted it because “life isn’t fair” this would be a pretty crappy world to live in.
Call me idealistic, but I believe in playing by the rules.

[Sparky22]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you could not overlook the point, it was not to make excuses for them, but instead to emphasize the fact that making them accountable is difficult as well as being not as effective as you might think.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, of course it’s not effective when the only punishment meted out is a slap on the wrist, a 3-month suspension and oh gee, they miss one whole horse show. So the answer would appear, from any reasonable perspective, to be to make the penalties for horse abuse TRULY threatening to life, limb and property.

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ONE horse show? Missing out on the winter circuits is a HUGE cut for trainers who go there. If they are normally stabled on the grounds with their clients (ie not stabled in GP Village at WEF for example), and are then not allowed there they are going to lose seriously large amounts of money.

Not to defend those being punished or saying that the punishment is over-done, but when that is what you depend on for a great deal of your winter work (where you are probably also buying and selling… not just showing and training) that has the potential to take quite a toll financially.

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I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats

[DarkerHorse]

No one has addressed my post above. How can the trainers be scamming people out of so so so much money if you never see them driving super nice cars or living in the best parts of town.

I’m not saying that scamming doesn’t happen, because I know it does. But just how is it possible that so many trainers are scamming people out of 50K at a time for pure comissions?

Seriously. Most, if not almost all professionals do this because they like doing it. They aren’t in it to get rich, because that is IMPOSSIBLE.

Sure there might be 10 or 20 trainers in the country that can sell and buy enough horses to make a lot of money off of their comissions… But, I really doubt there are many if any millionaire trainers who made their money from scratch in the horse industry.

So… Where does all the money go? LOL, does ANYONE besides the feed companies and the horse show places make ‘acatual’ (for lack of a better word) money?

Why D’ya Do It?

[srs]

So when is this supposed to come out?

[dab]

There are very few client’s horses on the list – And the owners of these horses are not listed as suspended individuals – Does this mean the horses were drugged without the client’s knowledge?

[Beezer]

I keep starting to post this musing … then stop … then start (and stop) … so here goes.

I’ve been around the barn more than a few times so I’ve seen a lot. Rode as a junior with a BNT who knew how to find out when and where the testers were going to be, was not above needling a horse (not mine – that I know of) to make sure it succeeded, saw no problem with making a lot of money off a horse that couldn’t do its job off the sauce. As a young ammie, another trainer I trusted sold me a prospect that nearly killed me the night the trainer neglected to give him his “cocktail” before my lesson – had I known such a cocktail was the only way the horse was ridable, I sure as he$$ never would have bought him. (Gee, do you think the trainer knew that? )

Like most juniors, I hero-worshipped my trainer; I thought he could do no wrong. He was the BNT, he knew all, and if he said “everyone” did this and it had to be done to win, well, then, so be it.

As an adult lying in a hospital bed, I formed a whole different opinion.

It’s taken awhile for it to sink into this hard head, but this much I’ve finally figured out: Some horses, no matter how much money, sweat and tears we put into them, are just not ever going to be able to live up to our expectations of them. To paraphrase Anne Kursinski, it takes a big person to walk away from both the financial and emotional investment.

It’s a lesson we all have to learn, sooner or later.

***** I muck, therefore I am. *****

[lms]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by your mom:
this thread is annoying
QUOTE]

Then why take the time to reply?

I agree with C.Boylen Suspensions were not a big deal until we found out that some BIG name folks are going to be suspended shortly. Perhaps this will teach others a lesson.

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”

[poltroon]

If you read the section carefully, under For The Record in the magazine, you’ll see quite a few specifics about how the hearing committees operate and what options they have. If you read the headers for each section, you can see when and where the initial hearing took place, and that there was also a review of the hearing results.

If you read these through carefully, you’ll see that while the penalty text is usually boilerplate (though there are occassionally interesting exceptions), there is quite a range of penalties imposed. For example, Robert Dover was censured and fined $500 for pentoxifylline, Dennis Harris was suspended for 3 months and fined $2000 for resperine, Todd Minikus was suspended for three months and fined $5000 for resperine, and Don Stewart was suspended for four months and fined $6000 for resperine.

The most interesting Notice this month is probably Allison Hecht’s, for falsifying her birth information and showing younger than she was. I wonder how they caught her and proved it. It is unusual that they also directed that she must return prizes from ALL shows where she falsified her age, forfeit all associated points, and pay each show $50.

[Giddy-up]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mardi:
They try to talk to the show staff about their kids’ entries or schedule, and their eyes are glazed and they can’t figure out what they’re being told.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I get that same look sometimes when I try to talk with the show office about my bill & I am not on any drugs!

[DMK]

I read that, and just figured they were not going for the trendy easy target. Still, it was an eye opener to read all the western stuff. It’s not that I didn’t know there was abuse in all segments, but still…

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[NinaL_aka_Chrissy]

Lord Helpus, I love your idea! My only question is storage space. IIRC, the D&M lab had outgrown its facilities but I also think that they had an opportunity to lease more space. It is certainly a cost-effective solution that could help deter the trainer who habitually sends horses to the ring with some chemical assistance.

Add in the policy of sampling all winners but don’t increase the number of the tests. Again, the expense is space and time to catalog the samples. But all those samples would be available for testing at the owner’s expense if a sample came up positive in the future.

Note the word OWNER in the proceeding paragraph. Put yourself in the owner’s shoes - how would you like to have to pay for your trainer’s illicit actions? Would it make you more aware of the medication charge on your bill? Would you be inclined to make your trainer more accountable for his/her actions?

Which brings me to my next point. I understand suspending the trainer because the trainer is responsible. But it astounds me that, in some cases, the horse who was medicated is still allowed to show (Social Secretary, for example). IOW, in some cases, the owner may just pick up, go to another trainer and continue to show. I agree that the owner should not be always be automatically punished for the action of the trainer (i.e., suspension if not responsible for the care of the horse). But imagine the deterrent if the horse was suspended. Don’t you think that the non-involved owner would be more involved if there was a chance that Dobbin would be out of competition for a period of time?

It is also time to take a look at the other abusive practices that are going on. If the horse show industry does not in some way figure out a way to police what is going on in the stabling and schooling areas we face the very real possibility of some exceedingly nasty scrutiny from the animal rights organizations.

BTW, I believe that the D&M lab offsets some of the expenses of testing horses at the shows by providing services to other organizations (I remember reading that somewhere but I could be wrong). I think they are considered the “gold standard” for testing facilities.

Nina

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:
[

Phenobarbital is just a barbituate. I doubt they give it to put horses to sleep,.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is what is used.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sing Mia Song:
FWIW, cocaine is considered (medically speaking here) to be an excellent analgesic. That is why it was used in so many “tonics” of the 19th century.

Some horsemen (and women) still believe that it is “good for man and beast.”

Nevertheless, would anyone care for some whiskey before breakfast?

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Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
-Mark Twain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acatually its more like lidocaine or novacaine than an opiate pain killer or even a NSAID. It still has limited use in ear, nose, and throat sugury. I guess you could use it to inject into a horses feet the same way a vet will block a horses feet if they are really footsore or navicular, but if you are going to do that you might as well use lidocaine because it works better and lasts longer.

There are ear drops that my friend has that are cocaine based. Her dad is an ER doctor. The ear drops say 1.5% cocaine chloride or whatever (meaning cocaine salt I assume).

It’s all over now baby blue…

[Bells]

Send the box directly to the vet with a paid return envelope. Vet’s name should be the only one on the chain of custody.

Rose

[War_Admiral]

Thanks Ghazzu! …But - does that apply to ALL cola products (e.g. would decaffeinated cola work?)? And what amount of cola or chocolate would it take for, say, a 1400-pound 17.2h TB to test positive? Administered at what time?

(You can tell I’m desperate. My big TB not only knows the way to the barn Coke machine, but knows how to push the buttons and understands perfectly well that the human has to put something in the slot first!)

If you ever see me on the list, guarantee you that’ll be why!

Treats That Test actually might make a pretty interesting article for some journo to write! I know I’d pay to read it!

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“Those who use horses just for the business are crass, classless horsemen.”
–George Morris

[lucky2day99]

Linus… I am sure that a mixup of the feed buckets do happen… but then again… those types of “reasons” reminds me of what people say when they test positive on drug tests (I used to be a recruiter and would always roll my eyes whenever I heard the following).

“Oh… I tested positive for pot? Huh… that is weird… Oh oh Oh! I remember last weekend I was with my friends and they started smoking pot in the car and I could not roll down the back window so I inhaled all of that smoke.”

In other words… I am sure that there have been very few cases of where there has been a mixed up feed bucket, but how often seriously does that truly happen? Especially when you are speaking about grooms and trainers who are by all means should be very fastidious in making sure that no horse is getting something that it should not be getting especially at a show?

Christina

[J_Turner]

godiva - did he tell you what the effect of said cocktail would be?

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“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V