THE suspension list

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarkerHorse:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Bute will not prevent a horse from bruising his foot when he steps on a rock. It will, however, mask the pain so you won’t know he stepped on a rock until he later abscesses…

Maybe I’m really stupid, but I’d rather know exactly HOW my horse feels the next day so I can identify any medical conditions that need to be addressed before they develop into one of those “jingles needed for my horse” issues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acatually, It woudn’t mask a stone bruise. Bute is not strong enough. If you were giving 100cc of it, maybe (10 pills). Of course, I bet the horse would colic if you did that, and that would be illegial at a show.

Bute won’t mask limping. And IMO bute really doesn’t do anything for foot pain.

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess that depends on the amount of pain the horse is in. The horse does not have to be 3 legged lame to have suffered a bruise.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Calmness per se is not rewarded in dressage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> “Relaxation” is ESSENTIAL to a decent dresage score.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[horsepop]

I would think the updated listing of suspended persons should be out for review by Friday 1/2/04. Don’t they normally release this information on the 1st of the month?

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

C.Boylen you posted the link to that, on one of these pages. Can’t find it now. Here somewhere I’m sure. Its an excellent idea to download, print it out and read it. Then keep it in your tack trunk. You will be educated as to what you can & can’t use.

[pinkhorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
And the point to all this is that NO ONE saddles up to come in second. You can’t legislate that.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG - join the real world!!! I guess I just hang out with lots of NO ONEs. We can’t all own lots of horses “of the century”. Some of us ride to ride and show to ride. Some of us get our satisfaction from the horse.

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check out www.biscuithillfarm.com

[GotSpots]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why would you inject a sound and healthy horse? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Legend (IV). Adequan (IM). Both given to sound, healthy horses in the hopes that the horses continue to be that way and have long careers. I put younger horses on both when I can (and I’m not alone), particularly if they are going to be jumping, have less than ideal conformation, or if the ground may be a touch hard, as a preventative. But under FEI rules, I cannot give that injection on grounds. If the horse lives on grounds, that means calling a vet to give those shots, even though I am competent to do so myself and would otherwise. Just two examples of drugs which are regularly used but which do not indicate unsoundness or lack of health.

[WIndward_1998]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sesroh:
It’s so sad. I have to imagine that winning in this way is a shallow victory. How good can it feel to win knowing you cheated to get there!?!?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh how I wish that was true, but for the trainers winning is the only thing that matters. Which is partly the riders/owners fault. How often are trainers chosen, only because they get their horses and riders to win.

Two minutes to Glory, hoping the judge isn’t blind.

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barnie:
MHM- I am almost positive that you can set someone down for life. And as far as caffine is concerned, it is my understanding that it is a masking drug…so that is why it is illegal…not as a performance enhancing drug.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Caffeine, like other methyl xanthines, is a CNS stimulant, and, potentially, a performance enhancing drug.
That is why it is prohibited.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I’m not advocating it, or saying it is horrendous. I happen to think that it is a whole lot more sensible than lunging the shit out of them, or the other methods used that are equally as hard on them. And asking a healthy, athletic, well-fed animal to stay quiet when he has to be stall bound for 23 out of 24 hours on the road is just crazy. Something has to give somewhere. So what do you suggest from your lofty towers in the perfect world?
Laurie <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Laurie P, I know you’ve been around for EVER! and are way more knowledgable than I am, and I understand a bit of bute to make a horse more comfortable, or even some sedative in certain situations, but must it be a steady diet?

How about making it so they don’t have to live like that? Cutting back on showing and giving time off? Showing bi-weekly? Paying the extra bucks for turn out at a show?

Maybe that something that should give should be the rider, not the horse? I mean, come on, if you have to drug it to do its job, the horse is not healthy, at least not mentally.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tackpud:
Don’t all vets have to maintain a membership with a governing medical body (state association)? Maybe a whisper in the ear of the veterinary higher ups would do something.

Of course what trainer is going to give the name of their vet to a medical association if it means that vet would be warned off and the trainer couldn’t get their illegal meds anymore?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are only illegial drugs with the AHSA though. Its not like these drugs are illegial with the US or anything. That’s why they can’t really be held accountable.

Why D’ya Do It?

[chrissy_mackris]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kirsten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> quote:

Originally posted by Jake’s Dad:
you know this story sounds like other story i use to hear in basic training…the horse went down in the aisle…the vet was called he gave him a shot and brought him back to life…he was in a class in the afternoon and got a ribbon.i dident see it …but i was told it happened at 4 am …hmmmmm question how come we never heard anything about this ??? for some reason the part i dont belive is …he went in a class and won a ribbon…wait …the bnt or the horse.

Well, once the horse was fine it was fine. You know?

This happens a bit with the magnesium and to a lesser degree the calcium. Most of the time the vets don’t need to administrate any drugs to bring them back. Who knows if that part is true or not.

Lots of the horses are fine to show an hour after it happens.

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Limo Wrek. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That reply made me nauseous. I’m hoping you’re not serious.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wait, WHAT?! a horse died, was brought back to life, and then competed in a show? forgive me for not reading all 51 pages of the thread, but…WHAT???

Tipperary

[MHM]

Midge, please check your PTs.

Muffin Man, the point of my question to Saddlebag was, how can a judge tell the difference between the horse who was (illegally) prepared with a syringe and another horse who was (legally) prepared with a lunge line?

Answer: There is no way for a judge to know which method was used! So the judge should not be expected to factor the drug question into his/her decisions.

[nelson]

Arnika and Mikes MCs - very well said.

Arnike you are so right on with what you said - it is understandable that an owner may genuinely not know what is going on in the barn where they ride, especially if it is being willfully concealed from them, But, if they find out (say, through these suspensions?) and then choose to ignore it, then they are as guilty as the suspended persons. IMHO

[dab]

I thought Rusty tested positive for something in a cream used to treat a skin condition – The tests showed a very low level of the drug which was consistent with having used the cream – When I read the details, it did not seem like anyone was trying to gain a competative advantage –

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Like another poster said, until we stop penalizing horses for being bright, and not automatons, someone will always try the easy way. Judging has to change, to help with this. The people who take short cuts will only find a newer, currently untestable way. And the horses loose, once again. There’s so much money in this sport now, its nice on one hand, but will bring into play these types. Who want to win no matter what. I am not talking about the trainer who gives a horse coming off layup a cc of ace to go back to work. But the ones who no longer want to do what it takes to make a good horse.

[El_Grande_Stimpendo]

Lordhelpus:

1. no, not you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Perhaps some of those “who you’d expect to be all over this topic” are just plain exhausted in engaging in aimless discussion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking more of the ones who clearly never tire of aimless discussion!

[Peggy]

a noble prize or a Nobel Prize?

[SoEasy]

Quote from the top of the list:
Any horse or horses, completely or in part owned, leased or of any partnership, corporation or stable of such person, or shown in any name or for his or her credit or reputation, whether such interest was held at the time of the alleged violation or acquired thereafter, are barred from taking any part whatsoever in any Recognized Competition and are excluded from all show grounds during Recognized Competitions

If you believe the clients horses are shown ‘for (the trainers) credit or reputation’ … then ALL the horses in their barn are out. However, if the clients are merely looking for new trainers for a couple months, I guess that’s not the way it is applied.

[Hopeful_Hunter]

clearound – you are absolutely right to call me on that, and I apologize. I took a phone call and did not check that over.

What I INTENDED to say was that there is a world of difference in terms of EXPECTATIONS OR LEGAL FORMS OF INVOLVEMENT between those who campaign PRIMARILY FOR THE SAKE OF CAMPAIGNING and those who don’t.

By that, I mean that there are people – probably many people – who purchase horses to campaign for themselves or for their pros who are not as involved in the day to day care of the animal and may have less concern about that care. That does NOT mean everyone who shows WEF is like that! We’ve just heard Chanda saying she WANTS more informed clients, in fact.

I know some people who DO show indoors and WEF and such who care about their horses. But I know some of their barnmates who don’t to the same extent.

That said, I DO still think that the higher the stakes, the more temptation to cheat. In ANY endeavor, from track and field to WEF to Enron. And in THAT aspect, yes, the people who campaign may have a broader tolerance for drugs and intensive prep than those who are local.

I stand by that. And just as you resented my making comments on the circuit I resent yours about those who are not on it. It’s a two way street, and the fact that we often don’t see it as such, that there IS a gulf, frankly is a huge potential problem still imo. And I’m sorry if that offends you, but it’s my belief, and one I’m entitled to.

[sil]

I had thought the ideal of drugs was to help make the horse more comfortable, and reduce pain.

To me, it’s just not right to then diagnose your horse as ready to do more work, and away you go.

The problem is still there and using drugs to ride over the top of it is bad for the horse.