The Wild Horse Dilemma

[Bluey]

@ThreeWishes

Again another view as we always hear ONLY the negative of feral horses. Are free ranging cattle indigenous?

Cattle and sheep are managed.
They are there only as permitted, many permits only to be used for some weeks out of the year.

Feral horses can work, just as we manage them in private lands.

Feral horses managed as a native species and not managed properly will not have much but negative to their use of those ranges.

Repeating, if the government is going to be breeding feral horses, they need to do so as we know today how to do that, starting with the right stocking rate for the number of horses and range capacity.
Stocking rate may change, as it does for cattle and sheep permits, with the conditions of the range, those generally determined by rainfall, or lack of it.

[ThreeWishes]

Uh huh. Cattle and sheep for profit. The horses there for decades. Both really a problem.

[Bluey]

@ThreeWishes

Uh huh. Cattle and sheep for profit. The horses there for decades. Both really a problem.

Cattle and sheep have been there as long as feral horses have been there?

Don’t really know what your point is, there is enough out there to get all that information from reputable sources, if we want to talk about how to manage for the best interest of feral horses, which are the ones in trouble now.

[ThreeWishes]

My point is that the cattle and sheep are deliberate … for profit. The horses not so much. They have no choice.

[Bluey]

@ThreeWishes

My point is that the cattle and sheep are deliberate … for profit. The horses not so much. They have no choice.

Still don’t understand what you mean?

Horses are there because they were brought over as the domesticated species they are, just as others and some went feral, as some cattle and hogs also did.

Feral horses are there now because they were declared a symbol of pioneer times and as such was decided to let them roam, in specific numbers and places and be managed by the federal government, in those ranges.

Feral horses have been in trouble since those laws passed because some groups make their living from the mystique of wild horses for profit.
Part of our entertainment world, their main interest the donations that brings them.
Fine that, if they would let the government manage horses properly, not interfere and then when troubles arise guess what, cry for more money for the poor wild horses.

[ThreeWishes]

My point is before you (general you) try to make a profit off government land clean up the problem that was inadvertently created and allowed. So animals don’t suffer.

[skydy]

This was clearly foreseeable. When the BLM first announced that they would be paying people to take BLM horses, most everyone knew that the majority would be held for the time required and then dumped.

I understand that the BLM is desperate, but it was easy to see this coming.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Thats exactly what happened to my mare. She was kept on some big Texas property with other Mustangs, for the required year, then they were dumped all at once at auction. They ate what they could find and showed up skinny and unhandled a year later.

The laws are in place, but there is no money or personnel to enforce them. These horses scatter all over the country.

Wouldn’t it be great if the BLM could hire drone geeks to check up on horses? Imagine signing a release that says you have to let the government check on the horses using drones.

[eightpondfarm]

I have 9 BLM horses. 4 were AI (adoption incentive) 4 were SA (sale authority) and one someone got for me from a killbuyer.
When my 1 year anniversary came up on July 1 for the first three AI, BLM sent a representative up from southern MO. He had a form/questionnaire and he had some required photos he needed to take. Fencing, waterers, hay, and the horses body, brand, hooves. He had me halter them and pick up their feet too. He was ONLY concerned with the three that came-due and zero interest in the sale authority mustangs or my domestic herd. Though i did have them all in from pasture and available…actually they were wandering all around his car when we were finished, so he did see them lol.

I don’t know what the answer is actually. If it were up to me, i would not allow sheep and cattle to graze the public ranges. More antelope, more horses and donks. And Bison! Lots of bison… But not privately owned animals. As for the fencing requirements, even though i have quite a bit of real-estate enclosed in my mustang mondo panels, not once yet have they been necessary. If you don’t pressure these horses, they don’t react. But…again, the cowboy way, the old-fashioned way, of breaking would indeed put even my panels to a test i’m betting. And since the wild-wild west is still the place where most of the adopters/buyers are…where the mustang acceptance and awareness is, well, they are going to need the 6’

The adoptions/sales make sense. It’s either that or sell them to meat buyers, or shoot them or let them starve. But gosh, there are a ton of non-horse-savvy people that get themselves a mustang. Some take to it…most have a lot of trouble.
It really doesn’t take much to keep them though. Not many people have the land i have, but i gotta say, ALL of my horses spend the majority of their time in the barns, in front of the giant floor fans and pretty much only graze from 8pm til 9am. Because of heat/humidity and horseflies. The mustangs have completely adjusted to being ‘kept horses’ …

[lorilu]

There is a very vocal group of wild horse lovers who are very against “planned parenthood”. Claims of changing/limiting the gene pool, “social” issues in the herd, etc etc. Frankly I wonder why they dont ALL own at least three mustangs.

[lorilu]

@eightpondfarm

If it were up to me, i would not allow sheep and cattle to graze the public ranges. More antelope, more horses and donks. And Bison! Lots of bison… But not privately owned animals.

The rangelands fall under the Dept of Ag, not Interior (such as Nat Parks). As such, they ad designed by statute to be multiple use.
I would be happier if the ranchers paid CLOSE to the grazing rate for private lands. As I understand it, the per unit (cow, sheep) cost is far below the private rate. Same goes for the mine/ oil extracters.

[eightpondfarm]

@lorilu

they ad designed by statute to be multiple use.

yeesh

I wonder if good ole boy ranchers grazing privately owned domestic livestock is specifically designated as the prime directive, the top priority for our national lands. “In fact, a 1990 General Accounting Office report showed that livestock consumed 81% of Nevada’s forage in the four studied horse areas.”
“And it all boils down to money: under the Department of Interior’s “multiple-use” principles, only so much cattle, so much wildlife, and so many wild horses are allowed on federal lands. The wildlife is “paid for” by hunters’ licensing fees. Cattle are “paid for” by the meat industry: $1.35 per head per month to graze the public domain. Horses, on the other hand, take up one “Animal Unit Month” (AUM), but no one is paying their way. Each horse removed from the West frees up another AUM for cattle or sheep or game antelope (see Public Lands Grazing & the AUM Connection).”

Multi use…well, after cattle/sheep raising on government land, the other use is pretty much recreation. There are tons of RZRs zooming around al over the desert, on and off designated trails/roads. Also there is hunting and fishing and shooting. hiking, camping and assorted motorized vehicles doing sporty things.

[eightpondfarm]

oops, forgot the link: https://americanwildhorsecampaign.org/history-americas-wild-horses

[eightpondfarm]

The Big Lie That's Destroying the Wild Horses of the American West