Thinking about buying a Barefoot Treeless- opinions and reviews needed please

[Bogie]

I currently own both treed and treeless saddles. They both need to be fit properly (and may require proper padding). I’ve certainly seen more ill fitting treed saddles out there. Saddles that sit on the horse’s spine or perch like a party hat on their back. I’ve seen horses that are so back sore that they flinch if you even try to touch their back.

Lots of people, including many endurance riders, use treeless saddles quite successfully. They pass vet checks during the rides, too.

Riders need to learn how to evaluate saddle fit, understand what they need for their discipline (jumping in a treeless saddle can be tricky because of the weight that the rider puts in the stirrups), and listen to their horse.

[KIloBright]

Treeless, or a so called treeless saddle with bridging ?
Far as a treed saddle being evil’, not true, if that saddle is well made and fitted correctly. IO should know, having ridden countless foal crops over the years in my balance ride saddle, and putting on numerous long mountain rides on various horses over the years int hat same saddle
Never sored a horse, even after riding 8 hour days, and several days in a row
MANy people do not know how to place a treed western saddle on a horse correctly, placing it too far forward, so that it in inhibits the shoulders from moving freely
Treed saddles remain the choice of performance riders and trainers that put in many hours at high end athletic manovers.
I can see where treeless might be of use for some people and horses, providing that treelsss saddle is not truly treeless-ie has some bridging that prevents direct weight bearing on the spine!

[2miniB]

I found Heather Moffett’s Vogue very comfortable for me and my ponies when I rode. The big selling points were comfort: for both me and my horses. It was the only saddle my super sensitive pony was happy in. I fractured my L5 vertebra and I have sciatica down my left leg. I tried too many saddles to count, and the Vogue was the most comfortable. Twist similar to a treed saddle, but not too hard.

I also had a Freeform Liberty, but the twist wasn’t as comfortable as the Vogue.

[MSP]

I have the Freeform EnduroX . I love it! Very comfy! I ended up with a treeless because I needed to switch to a light saddle from my western because of my own physical limitations. It was either that or give up riding. I could not get a saddle fitter to come out and didn’t feel like buying and selling saddles just to try them and I had a tight budget and was hoping to find a used one.

The treeless were much easier to fit and I loved that the Freeform was put together with Velcro and will fit my mare as she gains and looses weight. The extra comfort for me on long rides is a huge bonus. It is like sitting on a memory foam mattress. I bought mine used and saved some money as well.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=Calamber;7031148]
Treeless saddles put your weight directly, unless you pad it excessively, directly on the spine and are a waste of good money, unless you like paying your vet. It is the reason why there are trees, they lay on the muscle layers along the spine. Work on the ground, put the horse on a diet, but if you are interested in saving your horses’ back, don’t ride in a treeless. It’s is a scam for susceptible people who do not understand anatomy very well.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately for the treeless mavens, Dr Hilary Clayton has done a study on treeless saddles, and this was the conclusion drawn from the study…

[islandrider]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;7907706]
Unfortunately for the treeless mavens, Dr Hilary Clayton has done a study on treeless saddles, and this was the conclusion drawn from the study…[/QUOTE]

No disrespect, but Calamber’s post is like saying riding a bike will give you testicular cancer.

The treeless saddles of the past were guilty of this kind of thing-perhaps if a super heavyweight person was toss a treeless on top of any old saddle pad this could be the result too.

Present day is different. Technological advances pair with amazing results, when treeless saddles are used intelligently and “as they should be”;my own horse being one who’s way of moving and musculature completely turned around after going treeless.

The pads are considered an integral part of the success and fit of treeless. Some treeless brands simply won’t work for some conformation types. Girthing is also a key factor.

If you simply want to get on a horse and ride without taking into consideration all these factors, then treeless is not for you.

However, it is truly not fair to treeless saddles to have a rigid opinion based on yesterday’s trials and errors.

I participated in a saddle fitting clinic with a vet once who said that 95% of the necropsies she had participated in revealed that the top of the horse’s shoulder blades were worn down by ill-fitting treed saddles. She was not for or against any saddle, as long as it fit the horse!

In my own horse’s case, he went from being ewe necked and hollowed behind the shoulders from years of ill-fitting treed saddles (before he came to me) to a beautiful necked, full fledged shoulder muscled and FLAT back due to the RIGHT treeless-again, trial and error and it took 7 full years for this to happen, but at 24 he looks 7. No tripping on the trail either may I add!

It would due everyone vaguely interested in treeless some good to venture over to the treeless saddle forum on yahoo and read up. Yes some people go back to treed for some reasons, mostly because they don’t want to invest the time and trial and error necessary to find the winning girth/pad/saddle combo. However for every 1 of those there are dozens of peeps who see such relief, behavior, movement and confirmation change in their horses that they will never go back.

[katyb]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;7907706]
Unfortunately for the treeless mavens, Dr Hilary Clayton has done a study on treeless saddles, and this was the conclusion drawn from the study…[/QUOTE]

Sure. That’s why so many endurance riders are using treeless saddles.

[Guilherme]

Yeah, that Dr. Clayton doesn’t know jack about horses, does she???

The “treeless” saddle of today is a reprise of several attempts since the 1840s to come up with “conformational” saddles. None have ever worked in a field environment.

As to the claims coming from the endurance world, we need some numbers to evaluate them. How many (as in what percentage) use them? What is the weight ratio range that is represented? How many are DQ’ed for sore backs (or other maladies) and where did that DQ stand on the ratio scale? What brands stand where on the ratio scale and on the the DQ list? What padding systems are in use and the same questions need to be asked about them.

Once this type of information is available we can ask intelligent questions. Until they are asked most of the discussion is speculation.

Of course the Laws of Physics are not speculation.

G.

[katyb]

Okay, G., but you’d have to ask all the same questions regarding treed saddles, and either lump them all together or do a maker by maker comparison for both treed and treeless. We’re back to the fact that if people can regularly ride 100 miles in a day treeless, with vet checks, then treeless saddles can’t be the evil some people are constantly claiming.

My day to day trail observation is that I see a lot more horses ridden in treed saddles that have atrophy and white spots. Not seeing that with my treeless riding friends.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=katyb;7909069]
Okay, G., but you’d have to ask all the same questions regarding treed saddles, and either lump them all together or do a maker by maker comparison for both treed and treeless. We’re back to the fact that if people can regularly ride 100 miles in a day treeless, with vet checks, then treeless saddles can’t be the evil some people are constantly claiming.

My day to day trail observation is that I see a lot more horses ridden in treed saddles that have atrophy and white spots. Not seeing that with my treeless riding friends.[/QUOTE]

I agree that you can ask my questions for any type of saddle. And I agree that for some they may actually work.

Where I disagree is that they are a universal answer to problems of saddle fit. That is generally how they are marketed.

As to anecdotes, my favorite is watching a big woman climb onto a normal sized horse carrying Ansur dressage saddle and watching the poor horse almost go to its knees in pain. The woman did not “bounce” on the back but the pressure she put damn near dropped the horse. So maybe they might not be instruments of the Devil but neither are gifts of the Angels.

And there’s still that pesky question of weight distribution.

G.

[islandrider]

it is a general rule that anyone over 160 lbs should not ride treeless.