Then you need to factor in the cost of keeping the stallion.
Shall we EVEN go into the cost of advertising and what it costs to run ads for stallions. Someone else can explain that, Im going to bed!! LOL
Edited to add, yes there are still more things Im leaving out, as some have said. There are still some variable costs associated with all of this, but it depends on each individuals setup and ummm, overall breeding “goals!” 
Cost for me to keep a stallion is virtually the same as the mares with the exception of more hay costs for the time there not on pasture when the mares are.
County I think we are comparing apples to oranges. You are at a totally different specturm of the horse world than a lot of us.
I totally agree and have said no less. Theres many many differant ways to breed and raise horses. None are right or wrong there just differant. I know ranches that have stallions with $10,000 stud fees and places with $100 fees. The horses on many are housed and fed the same way, others very differantly.
I own my own stallions, and do live cover them, but with a caslicks in place on a few older girls, I still have to pay the vet bills. My mares have to have stalls 365 days a year, as the fields are needed for the stallion turnout on the opposite schedule. In a stall, they are taking up a space I could be renting to a boarded horse. After weaning, I do keep the youngsters in a field/run-in, so my “costs” do go down then. I am not making money. It IS a labor of love, and a labor of believing I am making several people very happy with their talented youngsters.
OK, I’ll play too.
My costs are a whole lot less than that example.
Grain- $40 Max per month (-$10)
Hay- about $20 per month, if that, because we grow our own (-$50) (-$960 in feed costs)
I’m sure feed costs are much less than that, too, because once the foal is weaned and the mare is bred back, she goes out on pasture where hay and grain are fed only when the grass isn’t sufficient to meet nutritional needs- generally winter only.
Shavings $5/mo. - the only cost is the fuel to go get them (-$960 in shavings)
Farrier about 10 trims in 16 mo, $15 ea (-$298 in farrier costs)
Yearly vet costs not including breeding- under $100 (float teeth, shots) (-$150 in vet costs)
Mortality insurance- I don’t think so. (-$550)
Indirect costs per horse (I have about 15 total): water $3 (-$4), utilities $7 (-$18), insurance $7 (-$71), hired labor- yeah, right. (-$85) Total -2848 for 16 months.
Just those differences in expenses add up to $5766. $10,507 less $5766 = $4741
If you want, you can add in about $1000 for that 16 month period to cover the foal’s portion of the mortgage,taxes and tractor and equipment payments, even though that also includes the roof over my head (no I don’t have much of a mortgage, and taxes are cheap here). That still only brings the total cost- if breeding and inspection costs stay the same- to $5741.
If you stand your own stallion and live cover, you can subtract another $2200.
Just because it costs one person $10,000 to get a foal to weaning age, doesn’t mean it costs that much for everyone.
Well, I want to thank LaNet for doing all of the math…it is depressing to sit for a few minutes and add the actual costs :sigh: of doing what I love. FWIW - I think the total cost is conservative. shudder
I run into the same thing with my dogs, so you guys have my sympathies. People can not fathom 1200 dollars for a puppy. You can explain and explain about showing costs, stud fees, health testing, vet care, high quality food, conditioning time, socialization of puppies, registration fees etc etc. The people who have made up their mind that good breeders are a rip off are almost impossible to reverse in their thought process…good luck with your rant, I am 100 percent with you.
[QUOTE=county;2605279]
Cost for me to keep a stallion is virtually the same as the mares with the exception of more hay costs for the time there not on pasture when the mares are.[/QUOTE]
My point on a stallion being “free” is not what it costs for his feed and upkeep…which for me was not actually more when he was younger. Our guy lived happily out with the mare band when he was home. He did cost me a chunk of change to purchase in the first place, and if not for breeding it would not have occurred to me to run out and get a stallion if I just wanted a riding horse. I got really lucky that he WAS such a blast to ride and such a gentleman even around mares. (Well luck to a point. His sire was like that too…buying a baby I did a lot of hoping he would be like his daddy when he grew up and got hormones!). Once he got to about 4 it became necessary to keep him in training over the winter. I do not have an indoor so that meant even though we have our own farm he had to be boarded out. Farms with an indoor that will board stallions are really hard to find around me!!! So then I had trainer expenses and outside boarding fees that nope…I would not have if I did not own a stallion. When he died at only 5 I figure I had 25K in expenses into him…not nearly made up for the 12 foals he sired…1/3 of which were my own mares so not income generating. One glossy ad in a magazine for one month alone can cost a thousand dollars. The advertising alone can eat up those paid for stud fees.
Oh I agree stallions can be expensive I’ve paid $25,000 for some. I insure mine until they pay for themselves after that I drop it. I’ve been fortunate never to lose one over the years at a young age one of mine is 25 now and still doing a great job of settling his mares.
depends on costs depends on enviroment- or situation
county has lots of horse and his own land so he could keep them easily
and can seperate them if he choose to
an no doubt could keep his offspring as a herd in a herd enviroment so his costs would be loweer perhaps than a one man band
but then there are those are are top quality and selective breeding - of type
and have proven background and if chose to add an AI service
then another typer of person breeds and brings up a horse as an addition
like me say-- i have 12 all together debs has 4 i have 8 - but i can house 12
to feed another mouth if it was a pony wouldnt cost me that much extra
but would cost a little extra if a horse- but still my cost would be lower than most becuase i have my place
but to bring up anything does cost it depends wether you doing it yourself
or you paying someone else to like a barn owner – yard owner then expenses will be much higher
as they have to cover there own cost
at the end of the day its all about profit – and what profit margine one has
or waht the product they produce is worth- some will add the year to date
which is fromwhen it born to how old it is now – but some forget in those 1st few months the foal wasnt eating --anything-- it was drinking milk - but then again they had to kee the mare in tip top condidtion so she could produce the milk…
so and some willwork it out on th ancestors - or performance for a dispaline
and some for a labour of love – but it a all profit
what ever way you look its profit for what you think the products worth as to on a whole
or part off a whole ------cost me this much —$$$$ so i want this much $$$$
back–
Kathy, surely you know the “secret” of making a small fortune breeding horses, don’t you? You start with a large fortune! :lol:
The TB folks have it right. Many yearlings sell for high six figures if their breeding is what folks are looking for (lots of “black type”). Of course, the stud fees for top TB sires are in the six figure range too and you must ship and board your mare where the stallion stands, use the stallion station’s vets, etc… Yep, that’s how real money is made. A $10,000 TB yearling is considered bargain basement and is usually not well bred.
From an IRS perspective, doesn’t a horse related business have to make a profit at least year out some number of years to be considered a business for tax purposes? One sick baby or a bad foaling where the mare is hurt or gets sick can wipe any profit out quickly enough.
Wow…that’s for sure. :eek: If it cost me that much to put a weaner on the ground, I’d not be doing it! Unfortunately, we cannot command $10k for a weaner in our breed yet…wish we could…but that’s neither here nor there.
A good example…I can feed and care for one of my horses for about $900 a year…hay, grain and I trim my own. I feed good quality round bales mostly… My number does not include any vet costs but those are pretty minimal except for an IgG test and any other unexpected calls. I do not have farm labor…I do all the work myself except for the help of my parents with mowing and some chores. I stand my own stallion. I pay for one ultrasound post breeding to make sure I don’t have twins. I don’t do inspections and registration papers cost me less than $50 per foal. My horse live outside so I don’t have bedding costs except when the mares are in for foaling. I’d guess my total costs to weaning are around $1200 give or take a hundred either way…and that’s one reason why I would never buy a weanling for $10,000…I don’t care what breed it is.
Some people may say that I cut corners but I don’t. My horses are healthy and fit. They get regular worming and hoof care and all are usually way too fat! Granted my horses are easy keepers and that does make somewhat of a difference but not $9000 more!
We do desperately need to get prices up in our breed and mine are some of the highest prices in our registry…but my foals are handled, wormed, trimmed etc… compared to some who sell wild wormy, thin ranch babies for $650.
Edited to add that my stallion pretty much pays his own way in stud fees. If I had to breed to outside stallions, it would cost me somewhat more. Almost none are available AI yet and I’d have to haul mare to the stallions.
Oh for sure it can same as any species of animal. Raising livestock for a living has never been for the faint of heart. My daughter says those who do it for a hobby do it as a ’ lifestyle " choice. Those who do it for a living do it as a " way of life " choice. Big differance between the two.
Thanks LaNet !
The discussion is always better with a spreadsheet since numbers don’t lie. Actually I would love to have some of your costs since I paid much more for collection fees for example.
I agree we do love horses, match making, quality foals. I feel so disapointed when I read or hear nasty comments on our work; when we loose a foal, we loose a family member, one of our kids.
There is a great lack of recognition for breeders.
Since I’ve begun breeding (9 years ago) my vet fees have ranged from $10,000 to $15,000 for breeding 2-4 mares a year. Only 3 of those years resulted in more than 1 foal. I’m not among some of those breeders with a bottomless pocketbook so I’ve had to sell mares just to pay my vet bills. With the cost of vet, stud fees/costs, grain, hay, shavings, inspections, membership fees, etc. I still could not make a profit.
My mares and babies come in at night. I do all of the labor myself while working a full time office job and taking care of my family. My riding has had to take a back seat to everything else and I miss it very much.
As much as I love the babies, I just can’t do it anymore.
The cost to raise a kid will certainly vary a lot by location. I think we are middle of the road here. Before getting married I looked at a job in a far flung corner of West VA as they were willing to pay good salaries for medical personnel (no one wanted to move there!) and property prices: you could take a zero off what you would pay here…while where my step daughter lives (within communting distance of Washington DC) the cost of our farm (when we bought it) will buy you a 3 BR ranch on a postage stamp sized lot. Ups and downs. Since we are close to the shows (Devon, Upperville etc) then there are more marketing opportunities. Folks here that live in certain places in say the midwest have lower property costs but they complain no one wants to come see them in the relative boonies to look at prospects. If you want to spend more on a foal (higher production costs) you can see a lot of horses at a lot of farms in an easy drive around here. If you want to spend more on travel to more “spread apart” breeding operations in the midwest for example you can probably get a very nice foal for less money.
Awe - someone with the same numbers as me! Glad to see I am not the only one. I breed as a hobby not a business. If I look at it as a money-maker I would go crazy because it is not possible. My husband restores cars. There is NO money in that either. He spends hours upon hours and will NEVER get his money out.
Once you/we accept horses/breeding is NOT a money making adventure you will be happier.
by the way - where is the Botox fee for wrinkle removal from all the stress!!!:winkgrin:
I about fell out of my chair when it said " take out about 12% for owning a stallion." Ah…stallions have all the cost of mares and more with freezing them, collecting them, extra help in live cover to hold the mare, advertising…if you own a stallion the foal cost is even more.
I’ve said more than once recently, it is amazing to me people won’t pay a decsent price to buy a foal and all of the cost have gone up but wormer these days. I feel like I’m breeding so I can give nice foals away to someone else to raise. We even do all our own hay and you think it saves up money…NO! The cost of the up keep of all the equipment to make hay, the time in labor is incredible, extra hired help to help with hay, and the fuel cost going up.
Then add on a Vet bill that is not normal and you are paying to give your foals away after you pay all the cost of a hospital stay!!!
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