[QUOTE=Molly Malone;2605468]
so nobody puts their own time down as a cost?
Now you know what labor of love means.[/QUOTE]
That about it in a nutshell.
Someone mentioned farrier at $10 a trim??? :eek: Mine charges $40 a trim, even for the babies.
BTW, my colt was SUPER for the farrier yesterday (and yes it cost me $40). He’s 7 weeks old (and huge!) and I had only picked up his feet for the first time yesterday morning. Never even picked them out before or touched them (except when he was born). I attribute it partially to consistent handling and nurturing to gain their trust. We had to bottle feed this guy for the first 24 hours b/c his legs were so long that he could not stand up on his own. I used to lay next to him in the stall petting him. 
He loves people and is secure with anyone and anywhere.
A breeder with 10-20 foals a year who has them turned out 24/7 cannot possibly do that much handling. I feel that this is something that should be worked into the equation. Most riders who buy babies have never had much (if any) experience with them. Foals don’t know proper behavior and must be taught what is acceptable and what is not. You need to know when to act, how much to react, and to do it quickly. That comes with experience. It’s so easy to ruin a baby. They become so big so fast and can get hurt or become dangerous.
Now, don’t you think that a rider would prefer to buy a young horse that had a sound beginning and pay a little more as opposed to one that hasn’t been handled and is scared and insecure? I have had so many horses throughout my life and I can tell you that the ones that were sweet and trusting and could socially interact with people were the ones that gave me everything they had under saddle without resisistence, not to mention those were ones who also stole my heart. I have 2 of those in my barn right now and my colt is not far behind.
Something to remember too -
When you compare costs, you have to compare to those of the same realm of what they are offering. You cant compare two totally different breeding operations (such as QH to Warmblood or even ponies to Warmblood) and get a honest figure, as the whole industry changes 100%. When you compare, you have to do it on level ground.
This may be confusing to some of you as your not deep into the accounting as I am or some others (CathyKb is also a Accountant and I can tell Tamara knows her stuff as well as a few others based on terms and language), but you cant compare apples to oranges.
[QUOTE=GreekDressageQueen;2605166]
What about breeders than own their own stallion? What about mares that are kept outside and don’t need shavings or hay. What about multiple mare discounts or premium mare discounts where the semen cost can drop to $800 a pop? Since we are talking about weanlings, should inspection costs even be considered? I don’t disagree that breeding is expensive and some foals cost a lot to get on the ground, but these numbers aren’t true for everyone.[/QUOTE]
If you can raise colts so cheaply why are you complaining about how much colts cost, just buy a broodmare and raise your own :rolleyes:
Like everything else foals are all going to be very very differant and alot of their personality etc. is from their breeding. The foals I’ve had over the years with alot of running blood in them required a great deal of handling pretty much from birth to be trained properly. The ones with a great deal of cow horse blood are just the opposite most of them walk up to us when they hit the ground and we can run our hands over them right from the start. Halter breaking at weaning time is a very easy job.
OK, so does the IRS have different rules depending on what you are breeding ? QH opposed to WB?
Does QH hay cost less than WB hay?
I fully realize that everybody’s costs are different, in fact I said that on the other thread.
I’m not at all fimilar with the differant rules for breeds other then QH and Paints. What things have to be done a certain way for differant breeds?
Not always true. My colt has “blood” on the top and bottom a few generations back.
http://www.graystonefarm.com/San_Morant.htm
Hill Hawk xx: http://www.graystonefarm.com/Divali.htm
Don’t both industries rely on a market though?
What I see a lot in this thread is a number of breeders saying my production costs are X and therefore a weanling should be worth X + Y to make sure I get a profit.
Boy I wish my world worked like that…The commercial breeders I know (and yes they are TB breeders) look at their mares, look at the prospective stallions, look at the probable yearling averages for both if they have an average nice foal (as opposed to a superstar or a train wreck) and decide with production costs if the move is financially viable. The market always comes first because no one really cares what you have in the yearling. If they like the yearling, they’ll buy it–if they don’t they won’t.
If you consistently produce horses for more than the going market price, you’re a hobbyist, not a commercial breeder. There’s nothing wrong with that–I didn’t sell a horse this year–but it’s a distinction that the IRS makes a big deal about.
The market is the market and it may be foolish insofar as it appears to value something highly (ie imported horses) beyond what you believe is the actual value. But it still has to be recognized and dealt with. I don’t believe anyone–even sport horse breeders–is guaranteed a profit in the horse world. I also don’t see where the prospective buyers owe anything to the producers as they select among thousands of horses to buy. That’s what a free market is all about.
Oh for sure every foal can be differant I’m just saying in my experiance over the years blood lines especially close ones play a huge part in a foals attitude from birth. We breed for a calm type foal with alot of cow in it. Compared to the running types we used to raise most are as differant as night and day.
an interesting factor also is the amount of money that can be made back on an investment animal....the AQHA IF and the NCHA/NRCHA/NRHA LTE's and the TB [B]BLACK TYPE[/B] all have a specific meaning to the open market buyers....within these purchases you have a promise (however slight) of a return on the investment....
within the German/EU "Warmblood" ranks you have a notion that some American buyer will wander over and pick one up as they are more rare here and the training protocols there are fairly uniform....so those are investment animals to the Germans/EU folks.....
if the sport horse world wants big money returns on colts they really really need to set up an IF or LTE's or something to give an idea of the colt as a true investment and not a pet to ride around on
Tamara in TNNo, they dont. But you cant compare two different breeding operations based upon cost when one is raising 600lb ponies to one that is raising 1700lbs wambloods. Your cost configurations are totally different.
You have to base on the same type, same goals, same sales costs.
Ok, Im gona try to make this simple -
When you are doing a cost comparision you have to compare on level fields. This has nothing to do with the IRS/Tax, it has to do with basic cost accounting. We are talking to two totally different things.
As others have said, the costs will vary greatly, depending where you are located. It seems that hay costs have sky rocketed over the past couple of years. Hay was $3 to $4 out of the field, now $7 is a bargain, if you can find it, also with grain prices that have jumped, property taxes have risen, electricity costs have doubled and etc. Also some breeders never figure in the cost of their land, barns, fences, hay fields and etc. I know of some breeders (no matter what breed) that throw their mares and stallion out in the pasture and never look at them until the foals (if they survive) are ready to be weaned and also breeders that take wonderful care of their mares and foals and handle them daily. Which one would I buy, no question but the well handled and cared for one.
These costs are a reality, and if it wasn’t for the addictive love of a foal’s touch, smell and love, I bet the market would have a lot fewer foals. Of course I think breeders are a breed of their own and have to be a little crazy.:yes::D:lol::yes::D:lol:
Ok but your statement compared QH’s to WB and that’s what I was asking about. Sure, ponies eat less. LOL
“You cant compare two totally different breeding operations (such as QH to Warmblood or even ponies to Warmblood) and get a honest figure, as the whole industry changes …”
Again, were talking two different markets. You cant compare the race horse market to say a jumper breeder market. Your comparing apples to oranges again and cant get a reliable figure. Your buyer market is not the same and you cant compare something that is totally different like that. Now if you were breeding TB’s for the sport of jumper, dressage, eventing, then we could compare costs, but the stallion you listed was for race purposes.
I think in todays market, the breeders need to look at it as a short term savings account and only to expect 75% returned, if that. :lol:
If you go and look on the sales site, agdirect, equine, dreamhorse, etc. The market cost for a QH is not going to be the same as for a top bred warmblood in the same disipline.
You have to compare like to like sales operations to get a correct factors.
So then I guess what you’re saying is it costs even more to raise draft horses. That is if your basing your figures on the size of the animal.
Mary
Perhaps not but the market value for a reining horse or a barrel racer or even a halter horse may be higher.
“This may be confusing to some of you as your not deep into the accounting as I am or some others (CathyKb is also a Accountant and I can tell Tamara knows her stuff as well as a few others based on terms and language), but you cant compare apples to oranges”
So in your best condescending voice please explain what you mean. I’m not an accountant so I must be a moron so speak slowly and in words of one syllable.
