I’ve asked this before but maybe not directly enough. " Exactly " what is it that cost a great deal more to breed and raise one type horse or breed of horse over another? I’m sure reg. fees are higher then the $25 for a QH but are they $1000’s higher? Where " exactly " do these huge differances in costs come from other then personal choices?
Originally Posted by M. O’Connor
How do the Europeans do it? Are they paying less to produce at the same time that their young horses regularly command higher prices on the selling side? How do they manage it? That’s what needs to be figured out, it seems.
This is how some of the Europeans do it - they raise the youngstock in groups like we do livestock:
http://www.paardenopfok.com/Opfok.html
I imagine this improves the profit margin.
They also have an export market for their culls that we do not have - ie. North America IS the export market for elite riding horse culls (and there is easy access to a taboo-free horsemeat market for the bottom culls too).
Thanks, I was beginning to think my posts must be appearing in white text (aka invisible ink). I could swear I keep posting that a horse’s value really isn’t determined by what it costs the SELLER to keep it/make it up/breed it; it’s determined by the BUYERS. If buyers “don’t” generally pay what it costs to produce most foals/young horses, pricing them at a that amount (+a profit) because they cost that much to produce doesn’t seem to me likely to result in a sale.
Like Tamara figuring out in advance what her hay will need to sell for before they bother to plant it, if you know what it will cost to produce a weanling/young horse and the market for a horse priced that way is weak or limited, you might not bother to breed it if profit is your goal…I honestly don’t see the shame in admitting that the velvety nose, cute little ears, or the satisfaction of producing a nice young horse, especially one from a favorite mare (that would be me) is the actual motivation. I would think that if profit could be attained when the youngster produced is exceptional (pwynn, would that be your “windfall?”) that would be a source of immense satisfaction, and if it went on to a great performance career and became well known, even a source of pride. But those are hopes and dreams, not facts and figures.
A European friend of mine who is in business here uses the term “ruthless” quite often to describe the attitude of many profitable operations when we are discussing potentially successful equine business models (we’re always trying to come up with a reliable one 
). The term ‘cull’ :eek: brings that term to mind…
this is true but have you ever seen them fed? They pour the feed in troughs. The more aggressive ones eat more and the timid one eat far less. I believe this method contributes to their high ODC incidence rate.
Now that’s absurd. It would take a very shallow person to operate like that.
Over 10 years ago I bred my TB mare to a nice Hanoverian stallion, when the foal was weaned at 6 months of age, I had over $7500 in the foal. ( He was sold at 3 weeks of age, before weaning) So as far as prices go in todays market, 10K is relatively inexpensive for a fancy (and correct) foal which has great bloodlines. Look at what yearlings are going for these days. Fancy yearlings with no experience in the show ring start at 20K.
I don’t think its absurd at all I see people do it all the time. Theres ranches with decades of history behind them of breeding, showing, and promoting there horses that get one price and people who have been in the business a few years try for the same price just because their horse is bred very similar.
Not saying it is. I am pointing out this example as these horses are Warmbloods being raised by methods that people in NA would attribute to livestock or stock horse breeders/farmers. And this is probably why their profit margin is better than the typical Warmblood breeder in NA.
Theres many many horses raised the exact same way right here in the U.S. virtually every QH ranch I know of raises there young stock in herd situations. from birth through life.
There is not a problem. If someone can make a profit, then hats off to them. I was just pointing out some very basic costs associated with breeding and why the price on foals are like they are.
What " exactly ’ makes those costs what they are? Is it a rule or a personal choice?
A lot of choice on how our horses are handled. Im not ok with my mares being kept in a pasture during bad weather, flooding, storms, or such. We dont live cover for the sake of safety of our stallion and mares. We feed the best foods and hay we can, as I wont eat crap and I dont expect them too. I guess I could be cheaper, but I wont do that to my horses.
Edited to say, most of my horses are out all the time, unless its bad weather. My dark horses come in during bad heat and sun, but most of them stay out in the big pastures with the huge trees, etc. But there are still costs, even with them out, just not as much. Even if I chip away at some of the costs, it will still cost me $6000-6500 to put a foal on the ground.
And some people trust me with in utero foals. They want super care for their lease mare and investment, as expected. They dont want cut corners on care either. As if it was the other way around, I would not either. As I said, we have to protect our investments and my pockets are deep enough to replace my mares, stallions, etc. very fast.
What one " chooses " to be their cost is totally their choice like I said there is no right or wrong. But I guess I just don’t understand ranting about costs that one chooses to have. If ones not happy with them change them.
BTW I don’t know of anyone who wants to feed or does feed their horses crap. Can’t imagine doing it myself.
I also have mares here to foal with us and like you ( 4 this year ) the owners want excellant care for their investment. Cut corners? Never we do things exactly the way we feel is best for the animal be it cattle, horses, or sheep. I really couldn’t be in the livestock business doing anything less.
Becuase everyone wants to buy a young horse for $3500, if that! Yet they dont want to breed their own, but expect breeders to “give” their money away, by lower prices to fit the buyers needs and pocketbook.
I want to buy land for $200 an acre like I used to. If an offer is to low just say no I do it all the time. When I buy something if I can get it cheaper then the asking price I sure as hell wiull. I bought land a few years ago for $750 an acre when the asking price was $1200. Sure glad I didn’t pay the asking price I saved alot of money.
County, I meant the ego part.
this is how my colts are also fed until they are sold....believe it or not...colts that have never been really hungry, really don't fight over the grains....and as long as you don't feed the mare/colt pairs this way they never learn to shove around from their dams.....it really is a peaceful thing to watch....
Tamara in TNTamara, I’ve seen some breeders in Germany feed. they have buckets and pour the grain in. I watched the more aggressive ones not let in the timid ones to eat. I know of a breeder who had a timid foal who became very thin and was much smaller than the others because taht foal was more timid. I don’t know. Maybe they had too many in there. I didn’t like what I saw though.
My mares all eat different amounts. I have a larger mare with a foal by her side who is difficult to keep weight on. Then I have a 2 year old that eats very little (2 lbs of Progressive a day) and she’s slightly overweight.
Personally, I think it’s a breeder’s job to constantly evaluate the weight and coats of their mares, foals and young horses. When I bring them, I check them over for cuts and scrapes and chips and cracks in hooves.
County mentioned choice. Yes, that is my choice and I personally would not be happy if I did things any other way. Perhaps it’s for my own peace of mind but it’s what I perfer. I do negotiate when the home is a match made in heaven. I also have the luxury of saying no if I feel that it’s not. There has only been one instance when someone has visited in person and did not buy and I’m fairly certain it was because they just wanted to compare my foal to theirs (another breeder whose foal had the same sire). My costs are higher, but I can be proud of my “kids” and it’s what works for me.
[QUOTE=GreekDressageQueen;2605166]
What about breeders than own their own stallion? What about mares that are kept outside and don’t need shavings or hay. What about multiple mare discounts or premium mare discounts where the semen cost can drop to $800 a pop? Since we are talking about weanlings, should inspection costs even be considered? I don’t disagree that breeding is expensive and some foals cost a lot to get on the ground, but these numbers aren’t true for everyone.[/QUOTE]
PARDON?
These numbers are not even close to being conservative figures for some . This is an extremely conservative estimate that does not account for heartache losses costing tens of thousands of dollars with emergency surgery bills, loss of a valuable mare or foal etc. , and the luxury of having a horse not consuming hay might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars on mortgage on acreage . Breeders that own their own stallion? Well lets see, I have spent around $100,000 on approvals, competition, promotion so I don’t think I saved big on not paying a studfee and frankly our vet bills are way higher maintaining top competition stallions, and we pay the same as our clients for collection and inseminations.
Really breeders breed because they have their hearts in it, not for the revenue. We have not looked at the uncountable hours that go into farm and infrastructure maintenance, record keeping, and care of the horses. I am sure I am not even scratching the surface, how about very serious injuries handling horses that cost the owners, there are many costs that are not taken into account here and you quibble about a discount on a studfee?
In North America breeding ventures are hardly run for profit but are rather a passion to breed a wonderful quality horse. If the blood, sweat and tears are all for the dollar we would have a very quiet forum.
Synergy Sport Horses
Breeder, heart and soul!
GOOD MARKETING always sells
If you are a known and respected breeder within a particular community, you really don’t need to advertise. We have a few people like that up here, where advertising is not done at all and the foals sell every year before weaning for the prices we are talking about.
On the other hand, if you are new to the whole breeding thing, advertising is obviously going to have to be there.
Either way, marketing will draw the potential buyers, but it won’t get you the cheque for the prices we are talking about if the quality is not high , I don’t think anyone is going to try and argue that.
