THIS..... This is what will kill eventing

[MHM]

@Heinz_57

While I’m sure the rider cares for his horse a great deal, in those moments he seemed to be prioritizing the competition.

I think it’s a fair statement to say that anyone who competes at that level has to be almost unbelievably driven and competitive to get there in the first place.

These are not people who got to the point of galloping around a five star by giving up on the idea of competing at any point, much less in the heat of the moment.

This is the same type that would climb back on the horse after a fall and finish the course with broken bones or a concussion or what have you. That went on for decades until the rules changed regarding falls.

With that in mind, it might be time to look at the rules again.

If they can hold a horse on course to check for blood and then let him continue after being checked out, they can do the same thing in a case like this.

Especially when the whole thing is going out across the world on a live stream, and everybody is concerned about the social license to operate.

[blue_heron]

The post that really gets me is the cropped photos of Boyd’s horses and this fitter who only evangelizes for Stubben saddles was supposedly “sickened.” By Boyd’s horses. Who is sponsored by Stubben.

[blue_heron]

I too thought this was odd since they had no issue with pulling up Tims horse.

As for why not pull him up at the head of the lake, I think it’s kind of like pulling someone up for Dangerous Riding. It’s incredibly hard to make that call and the moment had already passed. Plus, the officials at the head of the lake would not have seen the “fall” after that white skinny in person or know what had contributed to it.

[enjoytheride]

The horse portion of the Pentathlon has been horrific for years and was well on its way out as an Olympic sport. Pentathlon still exists.

Trying looking up cliff racing. It’s where you man from snowy river race horses up or down massive inclines. Still going strong.

Eventing did not die when we had televised horse deaths at Kentucky. It’s not going to die when someone may or may not have made a questionable horse welfare decision.

[MHM]

@blue_heron

Plus, the officials at the head of the lake would not have seen the “fall” after that white skinny in person or know what had contributed to it.

I think that’s a very tricky component of the issue. A lot of stuff can happen over a four mile course, and the results can be cumulative, even if each official only sees one part of it.

It’s not like they are going around in the show jumping ring with one set of officials seeing every single jump.

[enjoytheride]

I think there’s no way of knowing what the officials or vets said behind the scene. Perhaps they talked to him back at the barns. Perhaps they didn’t. Perhaps his riding improved afterword enough they thought he learned his lesson. Perhaps we will see the horse fall rule to change to include the horse’s head making contact with the ground.

[Texarkana]

@MHM

Especially when the whole thing is going out across the world on a live stream, and everybody is concerned about the social license to operate.

Anyone who knows me knows I am all about optics and social license.

But where do we draw the line between maintaining optics and letting the professionals do their jobs and make the judgement?

I am not just saying this about this situation, I am talking about the big picture. I mean, the crowd currently complaining was equally irrate over meaningless still photos of toplines, claiming the horses were unfit to ride when anyone with two brain cells knows that isn’t true. So do we fatten up our eventers to look like rotund ponies for the optics even when we know that isn’t what’s best for the horse?

I’m not attacking anyone here on COTH. This is something I think about a lot and I don’t have an answer.

In this particular CB instance, I feel very strongly that all the existing protocols worked and welfare was upheld. But I am also not opposed to the idea that yeah, maybe they could have stopped the horse on course for a quick check before letting him proceed. It’s a tough call. We can’t get to the point where we are stopping every horse every time it doesn’t look “pretty.” I get that this horse was more than just “not pretty”, but I’m referring to the potential for this to get out of hand.

[MHM]

@enjoytheride

Eventing did not die when we had televised horse deaths at Kentucky. It’s not going to die when someone may or may not have made a questionable horse welfare decision.

Nothing changes. Until the day when it does.

And on that day, the people who have been doing things the same way for years and years look around and wonder what happened.

[tabula_rashah]

First I am glad the horse is okay. Do I think he should have continued? No- but that is water under the bridge now.

Something I think that we all need to remember is that every horse sport, even if your horse enjoys it, is 100% about human ego. There is absolutely no purpose to them other than human entertainment. Are there countless jobs etc that revolve around the horse industries? Yes. But when you boil it all down, there is no reason a horse has to do any of this.

[alyssaequestrian]

@Texarkana

I would bet the house he was spun out of due diligence,

The horse was not spun. We can introduce ourselves next time, as I have been at every jog on the vet team for this event for years. The veterinarians associated with the event have limited opportunities to inspect these horses close up.

[blue_heron]

But things have changed. There have been significant measures taken to make the sport safer for horses and riders. They just didn’t help in this particular case, and no one died or even needed medical attention that we saw.

@alyssaequestrian Was the horse not held?

[MHM]

@Texarkana

In this particular CB instance, I feel very strongly that all the existing protocols worked and welfare was upheld. But I am also not opposed to the idea that yeah, maybe they could have stopped the horse on course for a quick check before letting him proceed. It’s a tough call. We can’t get to the point where we are stopping every horse every time it doesn’t look “pretty.” I get that this horse was more than just “not pretty”, but I’m referring to the potential for this to get out of hand.

In this particular instance, it seems as if the horse turned out to be OK afterwards. Thank goodness.

But it would be smart and strategic to use this opportunity as a way to think of a better approach going forward.

Something similar to stopping the horse to check for blood, which seems to be a perfectly efficient system that did not offend anybody on Saturday.

Both for the welfare of each individual horse, which should be a high priority for anybody, and for the optics of the sport in general.

[enjoytheride]

It was HELD.

It was not SPUN.

It went on to compete in the SJ portion.

[enjoytheride]

Look, I’m just saying that people’s outraged responses to this incident on FB and the corresponding outraged responses that how dare anyone say this rider didn’t love his horse and keep your mouth shut are not going to KILL Eventing.

This sport has progressed in safety and rule changes in leaps and bounds. If that process was effective with THIS incident I think that’s a discussion that might be happening behind the scenes and is certainly happening online. It’s entirely possibly this incident and the response to it behind the scenes/lack of response in public/etc may result in a change next year. We specifically have a rule about blood (which ended up not being blood it seems) we don’t have a rule about “horse wallows across ground but appears sound galloping” Perhaps they will Yellow card him later. Perhaps not.

I think being outraged that people are arm chair quarterbacking on FB is ridiculous because that’s a lot of what FB is and people have been doing that for millennia. For better or for worse.

[blue_heron]

Got it, thanks for clarifying. So he did not have to represent the horse. How long was the hold?

I know he finished the SJ.

[Blackeventer]

Sadly, for having watched this pair numerous times, I was not surprised at this young rider’s poor horsemanship.
Phantom is a saint, whose rider has very often displayed some dangerous riding with very low consideration for his horse’s welfare.
In fact, I no longer watch him on xc.
Since I believe he was under MJ’s “supervision”, I’m surprised he was not advised better…

I do hope they (especially Phantom), remain unhurt throughout their career.
And, yes, this is not what eventing needs.

[Not_Your_Janice]

He did have to present again and passed. I didn’t even know about the XC fall when I saw him at the jog and said to my friend it looked like the rider was masking something. He jogged very slowly and the horse def looked off. He did look fine the second time to my non veterinarian eye.

[Marigold]

@kt

Do you definitely mean Head of the Lake or could it have been the Cosequin Cove water I’ve attached here? This was posted by someone in the comments from that FB post and I screen-recorded it.

Huh. I hadn’t seen this clip, and I actually think I dislike it much more than the “big incident” that everyone is talking about up at the Hollow.

In no particular order my thoughts about the Hollow:

1. IMO horse fall rules exist because horses, as very large prey animals, do everything they can to stay on their feet. If they lose that fight a) something has gone very wrong and b) they often come down with a significant impact, which can injure them or the rider. I am very much in support of a horse fall being the end of someone’s day.
2. Having said that, the moment in the Hollow didn’t really meet that criteria for me. The horse fought to stay on his feet, as you’d expect, and ultimately succeeded. His belly was down for a moment, but he had his feet between himself and the ground and that’s how he was able to get back up with Calvin intact (and while Calvin’s riding style isn’t particularly for me, I have to admire his balance in staying out of the horse’s way and allowing him to recover). Because the horse touched down in this way, while it was definitely taxing to his muscles there was no extreme impact to his body.
3. My initial thought was the same (why not pull him up and at least check him?) and frankly for the purposes of the general viewing public I might still think that. But from a horse welfare perspective, the two things I’d want to see are a) a trot circle or two from Calvin to assess and b) every vet on the course to be red alert on the radios watching him for signs of a struggle. Any significant issue that might arise from that incident would be easier to spot in motion than when stopped. Stopping him has the benefit of letting the public know there are eyes on him, but I wish we could explain how many educated eyes are on him while he’s moving and why that’s more useful in this specific situation, instead of doing something that doesn’t necessarily help the horse or rider just to make the public feel better.

The reason I said the Cosequin Cove clip is actually more concerning to me is that was the first time I saw the horse struggle. At the Hollow the horse shoved himself back onto his feet and took right back off again - contrary to some internet comments, I did not see Calvin excessively encouraging him in any way other than giving him lots of space with his hands, which the horse willingly took. I did not see a horse that was experiencing any lingering difficulty at that point. But in the Cove clip, the horse does look like he’s struggling to keep his feet, and that taken in combination with his known extra efforts earlier on course perhaps merits some intervention at that point.

@alyssaequestrian

Case in point. The hold was most likely a result of his extreme stumble

Agreed. I am also of the opinion that the horse was held at the second horse inspection specifically for this reason - they wanted a closer look at him, given the exertions of the day before, and I don’t think the hold was related to anything they saw in his first pass down the lane. Again, I think this is something we might benefit from being more open about to the public - this was another check and balance on the situation, but not stating that openly leaves room for the internet to misrepresent it, intentionally or otherwise.

I did think the horse looked wonderful in the show jumping, for what it’s worth. Keen and enthusiastic about his job. He would not appreciate me in the saddle holding him back, that’s for sure.

@Texarkana

My opinion as someone who was kind of sort of on the inside all weekend is that there was so little drama at this year’s event that the arm chair quarterbacks had to create some.

Completely agree. I share the concerns in many comments above: these pages who trade in ragebait are a massive problem (for the sport, but also for the world at large). I understand that the easiest way to an interaction is through anger, but I think this mentality is going to be the end of so many great things. And as much as I love eventing, I don’t think it’s even going to be in the top 10 of wonderful things that get affected by this trend.

I’m aware that not everyone will agree with my opinions in this post. But I wanted to put my honest thoughts out there. That’s getting tougher and tougher to do these days but I think it’s the only way we can have a dialogue.

I think this whole post is great and deserves a second read:

@Texarkana

Anyone who knows me knows I am all about optics and social license.

But where do we draw the line between maintaining optics and letting the professionals do their jobs and make the judgement?

I am not just saying this about this situation, I am talking about the big picture. I mean, the crowd currently complaining was equally irrate over meaningless still photos of toplines, claiming the horses were unfit to ride when anyone with two brain cells knows that isn’t true. So do we fatten up our eventers to look like rotund ponies for the optics even when we know that isn’t what’s best for the horse?

I’m not attacking anyone here on COTH. This is something I think about a lot and I don’t have an answer.

In this particular CB instance, I feel very strongly that all the existing protocols worked and welfare was upheld. But I am also not opposed to the idea that yeah, maybe they could have stopped the horse on course for a quick check before letting him proceed. It’s a tough call. We can’t get to the point where we are stopping every horse every time it doesn’t look “pretty.” I get that this horse was more than just “not pretty”, but I’m referring to the potential for this to get out of hand.

[endlessclimb]

It’s not just a single factor. The Tevis Cup killed 2 horses in 2022, 2 more in 2024 - but because it isn’t widely publicized and turned into a destination event, no one even notices.

[MHM]

@enjoytheride

I think being outraged that people are arm chair quarterbacking on FB is ridiculous because that’s a lot of what FB is and people have been doing that for millennia. For better or for worse.

I am not outraged or even concerned about armchair quarterbacking on Facebook, or here on the BB, for that matter.

I am concerned that there was no measure in place to check on that horse’s welfare before he continued, even if he did not technically meet the definition of falling that is in the current rules.

The horse was on the ground after the jump. Full stop.

The horse had to get back onto his feet to continue, because he was on the ground. Even if his shoulder and his hip were not both on the ground at the same time.

So maybe they need to tweak the definition of a horse fall so it is more specific, in the same way that the rule very clearly says that a rider has fallen if they have to vault back into the saddle, or whatever the exact wording is now.

Or maybe they need to add a clause that says if a horse needs to regain its feet, it needs to be checked by the veterinarian before it is allowed to continue.

That clause in the rules would allow the vets to examine the horse to verify that he is in one piece, which would also give the rider an opportunity to think for a minute about whether he really needs to continue at that point after the horse is examined.

Granted, most riders would probably just continue if they had the chance. But at least it would be a way to verify the horse’s welfare at that point in the course before it tries to gallop another three miles over jumps.

I am not an expert on race horses, but I believe that since the government finally decided to step in and get involved in race horse welfare, it has not gone terribly smoothly.

So that is probably a good indicator for everyone else involved in horse sports that we need to clean up our act ourselves before it gets cleaned up for us by an external force.