Thoughts on "The Traveling Horse Witch?"

Yes, when it first began it was marketed as simple standing bodywork exercises that owners could do at home in conjunction with their existing training programs, and one of the reasons myself and other early adopters were supportive of it initially. By the end of that first year it evolved into riding horses while in stretched out resting postures, and most of the original folks involved no longer support it once they’ve run their bank accounts dry and realize their horse isn’t as improved as they initially believed.

Recently I saw a comment where Celeste was claiming several talented professionals who have been around for years prior to BTMMs existence somehow stole her work as a sort of meltdown when someone politely questioned aspects of the method that are now being recognized to be destabilizing posturally in the research realm. That was interesting. It was quickly deleted however. Can’t help but think she slipped up and revealed her true colors before realizing her error. The thing is screenshots live on forever, and here it is for your viewing pleasure.

Steph Bloom has been a supporter of BTMM for quite some time as far as I can tell, so it’s odd Celeste is attacking her for simply bringing up concerns very professionally about some of the exercises. Celeste’s knee-jerk response is to berate her with untrue harsh insults. The strong defensiveness is typical of her nature anytime she is questioned by a supporter. Isn’t that strange?

I also recall Annie Dillon was attacked in a similar fashion by Celeste some years ago for discussing with Celeste about the importance of an open poll when Celeste was supporting horses falling behind the vertical in the masterclass a few years back. I do recall Annie disappeared from social media for quite some time for health reasons shortly after, was that part of it? Is there more to the story? I suppose its only fitting Celeste appears to have reversed the roles in her recount of the events. The irony is Annie teaches the opposite of what Celeste teaches which makes her claims even more ridiculous.

Diana Waters and Celeste got into a very public bashing amongst each other some time ago. I am not all that familiar with Diana’s work so I can’t comment on that, but I can say I have met multiple trainers who have worked with ex BTMM horses who were in training with Celeste herself, and Celeste had missed significant crookedness in the spine, not to mention every single one of them had pronounced brace in the poll. Again, she seems to point the fingers for actions she herself is guilty of.

From what I can tell, most respectable trainers don’t give her the time of day once they see through the social media popularity ruse, that appears to be the only consistent aspect surrounding the method that I can see. It does make for some popcorn worthy drama!

Why someone with such a large following and profitable business would be so concerned with such small name trainers is beyond my comprehension. But then, this seems to be evolving into a recurring theme, and it’s not a good look for Celeste. I suppose gurus can only maintain a facade for so long before the cracks begin to show.

At the end of her comment, if we are to take the trend of this entire screenshot with obvious role reversals of what actually happened, then look at where she mentions she enjoyed her talks with these individuals, I can only assume it’s because those talks benefitted her somehow because they certainly don’t seem to miss her.

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There it is. True colors. Again.

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Because of money and greed?

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And probably narcissism?

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It was this thread being cross posted on the HHO forum that changed Steph Bloom’s support for BTMM, it used to be brought up and recommended fairly frequently over there but not anymore.

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To recap on my thread that I started, the blogs that introduce me to the concept of BTMM have essentially abandoned the method.

I do know two local trainers (both that I had worked with briefly in the past, years ago) that are pretty deep in this stuff. Basically both of them have stopped doing anything I would call Dressage as we know it and their programs are radically different. I know one has almost tripled their prices and it seems they teach a much much smaller amount of clients than before.

But I have yet to see anyone get to the “otherside” of the program. Curious if anyone that posted earlier on is still having success with it? No shame in being happy with the method if it is working.

As far as my own horse, I feel like I can get what I think is pillar one and pillar two no problem without ever joining the program. But it’s not a big, continual focus for us. We work on a lot of things.

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https://www.facebook.com/share/p/151XQvy2WL/

Maybe I’m just dumb. I don’t think any of it sounds like a bad thing. Obviously don’t let your horse brace or go around like a llama. And yes obviously don’t then get your horse stretching down just actually dropped on the forehand. All sounds good to me.

But I keep scratching my head and why it said in so many words and so expensive. Like I said I still don’t really get it after a few years since the thread.

But maybe I’m just not the target. I’m a pretty mediocre rider but I’ve been riding dressage with good, qualified people for years. I’ve always been a bit of a book worm as far as reading books and stuff. I’ve always had a high interest in horse care. I do also have a horse that I think is not the target here. He’s technically a downhill QH but not very downhill compared to many. And I think he naturally understands how to lift and use himself for at least short periods. I like to think good training helps but honestly I was watching a video of a sire who moves very similarly even though he was working cows.

So anyways if it’s working for you, truly, that’s great. Sure I hate to see somebody who seems like they can be a little unethical get filthy rich but that is almost beside the point as far as the method. I myself have paid money for stuff that I thought was probably b******* but it was my money to spend.

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Professionals that know how to train dont need that many words. Look at how simple and succint Christine was at the symposium last week.

You dont need all these fancy words when you know how to train it. Its feel. But unless you have huge street cred, fancy words are confusing and sell to amateurs because that was hard to understand and it makes her sound like she knows more than the buyer so they should buy!

But its just the basics. Get the horse to stretch, get the horse to rebalance and take weight behind without leaning, then get a little flexion side to side. It sounds like she tried to reinvent legerete steps 1-3. Someone who knows what they are doing just naturally does this with their horse by assessing what needs done. They dont explain a novel, they just know to do it.

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What’s the HHO forum?

Horse & Hound forum I believe.

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Are the Sync breeches still associated with this? Was looking at the black lined white breeches when I realized they sponsor BTMM… I don’t want to buy if it supports this crap!

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I’m not sure but I will say if you order them, the return time frame is super tight. Make sure you try them quickly - I waited and missed the window. I personally hate mine (show every dimple…) but lots of people love them.

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Yes and it’s such a bummer. I really want to try their breeches but I would never give money to someone who supports that narcissistic charlatan :unamused:

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I broke and ordered those sparkly breeches in light blue because they match a pad I have. Yes, show every dimple. I don’t have that problem, even with the cheap Amazon riding tights. It made me think of that line in Sisters “We need less Forever 21 and more Suddenly 42.” However, I sized up on their winter breeches and really like them.

If it helps, I read on another thread that the black lined white breeches don’t look good.

It’s funny, I followed CLL on FB and read a post she did the other day that pretty much showed her hand on the pillars stuff. Basically saying that most horses are holding tension, and the IH work helps with that. So yeah. No need to pay money to figure that out, but I can see novice horse people with tense, uncomfortable horses thinking this is a magic pill and going for their wallets, not realizing they just need to attend to their horses’ comfort and relaxation when working.

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Spot on

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I am increasingly distressed to see people I consider to be tops in the training field falling for these fakes. Why? Is it that people do not have the confidence in themselves and the wherewithal to recognize social media gurus with absolutely nothing to offer but social media following? People who don’t have any credentials? People who squeeze money out of well meaning horse people? I absolutely hate it.

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It’s a very interesting thing.

I have gotten a good amount of PM’s and emails from people saying they joined, were all about it but then started to see the cattiness or inconsistency and stopped with the program. Sadly most of them said they will not speak out publicly because they are afraid of the wrath that may come from speaking out more publicly.

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What’s interesting is that there were a few BTMM instructors listed on her site that seem to be no longer associated with her (taken off her website).

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I saw a 3yo unstarted Saddlebred on one of those biomechanics FB pages with genetic swayback. It’s a genetic marker in some saddlebred lines, there’s been a lot of studies about it. Multiple people suggested this program to fix the horse’s back. The number of people who thought it was fixable was astounding.

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That is really irritating.

A sway can definitely be strengthened, but you cannot fix a genetic swayback with corrective exercises. Helpful? Sure. Fixable? Nope.

But then again, these are the same people that often claim that it’s a result of poor riding, and it’s not - these genetic issues show up before the horse is ever even put into training (if it is).

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