you can also insert DOG for HORSE…
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I could do with a bit of woo in this part of the world. Like Mark Rashid and Warwick Schiller levels of evidence-based, sensible woo. As a CO expat, I grew up around that stuff. You don’t quite appreciate the woo until it’s gone.
My weird little ex-feral does not play ball with the BHS-style kick-on-and-make-him-do-it approach to training, which is [edit] endemic out here. And as useless as a marzipan dildo for this horse.
He’s stuck with me and Warwick’s YouTube videos. Luckily, he has many, and they are free. He’s some dude to put all that free content out there that’s actually useful and informative.
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What kind of woo does Warwick pitch? I don’t follow him.
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I think he’s just added a reflective emotional component to his discussions of training. Not really woo.
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His podcast follows all kinds of things. He loves talking to people who are crazy adventure types.
As I (vaguely) remember, found himself with a horse that stumped him. He then became interested to find out what it was about horses and training that he did not yet know.
I I have mostly focused on the down`regulation work. Which I had originally seen explained as Constructional Aggression Treatment for dogs at the Art and Science of Animal Training Conference in Feb 2019. Now labeled a Constructional Activation Treatment for horses. It is almost the opposite of ‘traditional’ sacking out.
“Being seen and getting got” is one of his big mantra’s for horses. I have only watched a bit. He still has and extensive catalog of training videos from before the ‘woo’ times.
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He’s mostly not woo. But lately there have been some relationship things that I personally feel have been a bit more on the edge.
That being said, I don’t have a big online following that I’m trying to maintain. His original stuff was sensible, rooted in both tradition and science, but now there is a whole new generation of people to try to make a living from.
His original stuff was good. And I still think if I had a horse I couldn’t figure out it would be he, and BB, that I would consult. Also Patrick King who I trained with and was super real.
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We have two WINNERS today!!!
Eta, I’m now craving marzipan. Shape does not matter.
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He’s an advocate of “Cat-H” training, which essentially strives to stay below the horse’s panic threshold. Not the Clinton Anderson type of run the horse ragged until they stop, or flap a rope/flag endlessly until they stand still (in a lathered dead-eye repressed state). He encourages people to notice the SMALLEST behavioral changes-- ears pricked or relaxed, eye blink, gentle exhale snort, etc-- and demonstrate to the horse that you notice those changes (by removing pressure). Most horsemanship trainers focus only on feet-stop-moving and lick and chew… Warrick goes further into recognizing more subtle behaviors and reacting to it in a way that builds trust with the horse.
As an example:
I had a yearling filly I was teaching to trailer load. She was hesitant and a bit stubborn, but did not seem terribly scared. I used techniques that had been successful with other horses, such as circling/lunging outside the trailer, letting her rest on the ramp, or circling across the trailer ramp, teaching her to “send” down a fenceline on a rope, etc. I was calm and methodical, not emotional, as worked with her. However I was not having much luck. She ended up rearing, running backwards, and getting extremely upset.
Then I watched one of Warrick’s videos and followed his technique to help a horse overcome passing a scary obstacle. I used this method with my filly: walk toward the trailer, and the instant she “picks up on it” (lifts her head, pricks her ears, and/or widens her eyes), halt. Doesn’t matter if it’s 50yds away or 15 feet away. Stand calmly on a loose lead, and wait for her to show a sign of relaxation: head lowered (ANY degree), eye soften and blink, or lick and chew. The instant she does so, turn away and leave. Walk a small circle, and return to approach the trailer. Again, when she gains ANY amount of tension: head up, ears pricked, eyes locked on, stop. Wait. When she relaxes, turn away again.
We circled about 4 times, getting closer and closer each time, and on that final circle this filly DRAGGED me to the trailer ramp. She put her nose on it, pawed at it, and then stood there with quiet interest. I turned away and circled again, but her curiosity was activated and she thought, “Wait, I want to go back there.” When we approached for the 5th time, she marched to the ramp, and steadily walked right into the trailer. The whole process took about 10 minutes, and she was never stressed or upset.
I was floored. I hadn’t put any pressure on her. All I did was be patient, and release pressure with sensitive timing. I have since used the technique on many horses, from foals and weanlings to adults. It is incredibly effective, and the horses gain so much trust and confidence when they realize you “hear” them and allow them to express concern (versus pushing them past their concern and “flooding”). By staying under threshold (not pushing them to the point they are actively running away), you can progress with surprising speed. Traditional training would think that “turning away” from the issue (trailer, etc) is “letting the horse win” and rewarding them for fear/disobedience. The key is the TIMING of halting, and the timing of turning away. You don’t keep going until the horse is “leaving” with every fiber of its body. You halt at the first sign of concern. Then you STAY THERE until the horse relaxes…and by turning away, you are releasing pressure and rewarding the horse for his relaxation. The horse learns to trust you, because you are appropriately responding to his behavior and you are relieving his stress, not increasing it.
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This is a fascinating and excellent post. Some great food for thought.
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Excellent post. I try to do this but not always successfully. It takes so much patience, self-discipline, and, mainly, not worrying about other people.
I got into a thing last week with my 4 year old over a bench we use for mounting. Something odd was on or around the bench, and she did not want to stand close enough for me to get on. I was riding out with a group of other people, who were waiting impatiently (and some of them had places to be that were not the barn). I increased pressure to try to get my mare up to the bench, and I can’t say it was successful. In fact, it made her more reactive to the bench. I ended up getting on at a different mounting block.
Same as when your horse gets stuck out hacking. You have all these other people behind you, waiting for you to push the horse forward. You feel impatient and escalate pressure, which doesn’t make anyone feel good about it. I hope it isn’t just me who’s been there.
I need to hear Warwick in my head, especially when there are other people around. I kind of forget how to train, or how I want to train, when I’m being watched or there are people expecting me to just get something done quickly. When I’m by myself in my own little world with my horse, I train much better.
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I think many can relate to this, unfortunately. Often, I much prefer the company of horses over humans.
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It was actually early Clinton Anderson that introduced me to the concept of approach and retreat.
I don’t do any chasing of horses around a round pen, but for instance if I need to introduce them to the flag, I do it exactly that way - I bring it into view, and as soon as they look at it, I take it away. Pretty soon the horse is following the flag around trying to catch it.
I do the same thing with scared people too. We walk toward the mounting block and as soon as they get the slightest bit nervous we turn away.
That part isn’t woo. But his podcast and some of the newer stuff can get pretty woo-ish.
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I actually used this exact approach with my last horse, not necessarily for trailering, because he was very easy in that respect, but for other things, and I didn’t know it was a thing until I watched some of Warrick’s videos out of curiosity one day when I bought my yearling and wanted to do some “studying” and make sure my toolbox was equipped for a youngster again. It was actually really odd how I’d already been doing many of the things that he spoke about and demonstrated so…naturally. It made me feel less weird mostly because someone else out there thought that way or found reason in that way. It continously baffled my friend as to why her horse would do anything for me or do things differently with me, or how I communicated with them, and I could never quite explain it. She always chalked it up to some “feeling” that I had and I thought that was too “woo” but maybe she was on to something. To me, I was just doing what I thought would make sense to the horse.
Timing and feeling is HUGE and it’s hard to train that into some people, but it’s so important.
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I’ve been there.
Another thing I notice is that people want instant results, and this often creates holes, a poor product, or even a poor relationship. I remember when I began training piaffe in hand with my last horse and of course he didn’t do it perfectly the first couple of times (but he picked it up quite well), and someone said to me, “Well, would you look at that! He isn’t doing it right!” and it was his second time ever trying it. I was like, um, you have to install building blocks and build. It isn’t instant. I could force him to do something that looks like a piaffe or is a party trick, or I could build a correct piaffe. The irony was that soon enough he developed a great piaffe and months later her horse was still kicking out at the whip and standing on his front end while bouncing his hind end around as she tried to force him into something neither of them understood or could build. So I’m not sure she had the credentials to comment anyway 
I also teach my horses random tricks, such as handing me the whip, and people think they’re just born knowing how to do that and don’t realize that things start small and you build. It’s amazing, just the lack of…connection, or something.
I’ve let pressure get to me in the past, but now I put the horse first and can’t be arsed with the people. The right people understand. They can be hard to find though!
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Honestly, are we the same person? Could have written this myself…
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This is very similar to what is or at least was taught by Dr Miller of imprinting fame.
I can remember him talking about how he gets horses to walk on a scale. He would stop and look at it himself to acknowledge that it was something different. Allow the horse to look and then proceed. His idea was that some horses need to acknowledge and also need you to acknowledge that there could be a risk and to use caution. If you acknowledge and then proceed you are showing them it is ok. He explained it as some horses think you are not reliable to guide them if you don’t recognize something could be a risk and check it out first.
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Excellent posts about needing to listen to the horse and not get carried away by human social pressure in either a trail or a schooling context.
I also agree that timing and feel are the foundation and can be very hard to teach someone that doesn’t have it. In riding that can be masked by the fact it’s a complicated endeavor that needs a lot of seperate skills. But clicker training is the pure form of only using timing and feel, and I’ve watched so many people kind of fail at it because they just don’t have the split second timing or the laser focus on the horse. To me clicker training is so easy it feels like cheating, but to some people it’s a huge mystery.
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Thanks all, I appreciate the responses.
How would one apply Warwick’s approach- retreat method in a situation where one is pressed for time? Such as in a show environment (etc) where one can not stop, retreat, approach again, etc? I suppose this is a situational training tool?
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