Thoughts on "The Traveling Horse Witch?"

[NerdyHorseLady]

THW loves to play the victimized woman card, and she plays it quite a lot with much success I might add.

Everyone faces criticism and negative peer review, no one is immune, man or woman.

The big very public and ugly blowup between Gerd Hueschmann and Philippe Karl is a prime example. They both have their niche followers who vehemently defend either one, and you still catch the men making high school jabs at the other. Personally, I’ve gained positive insights from both over the years while ignoring the drama.

Speaking of women tearing other women down… You can’t forget the way THW so ruthlessly attacked Jec Ballou last year, it was ugly. It’s ironic how she seems to only cry “women should support other women” when that cry appears to only apply to those women who unquestioningly agree with THW.

I’m sorry, but respect needs to go both ways. One does not gain respect by crying victim and putting on a whole song and dance about it. One gains respect by being respectful. Period.

What most have issue with is the inability to ask professional critical and important questions without ruthless mean girl attacks from THWs SM clique.

What is even more ironic about THW using the victimized “women need to stop cutting down other women” line is that it is THW’s own women who do a majority of the attacking.

Pot calling the kettle anyone?

[anon68314200]

No idea about who Jec Ballou is. Will do some googling.

Does my support of Mary Wanless count as “mean girl attack from a MW clique?” I notice you did not describe the Gerd/Philippe ‘blow up’ as having “vehement defender” While TWH has a “mean girl clique.”

I still see a lot of titrated judgement of folks depending upon their status in the food chain. Folks are ‘attachable’ based somewhat on their placement in the food chain.

I don’t think anyone is purposefully behaving irrationally because they ‘disrespect’ you. They are behaving as they feel they can in the given circumstances.

The cry of ‘they are not being respectful’ is a (oft deployed) cover for “they did not treat me how I feel they should, therefore they are low.” THW has a different point of view, this does not make them “disrespectful.”

“Respect” is a topic that could easily be it’s own thread. A lot of bad/unskillful things are done to horses to correct ‘disrespect’ or install ‘respect.’ Similar happens human to human.

[anon68314200]

The podcast I posted above does remind of Tara Sanders !! Lol If anyone missed out on the last 2 years of JT Thompson Livestock you missed some quality stuff.

[NerdyHorseLady]

It appears I hit a few nerves. My apologies, I did not intend to trigger you.

[NerdyHorseLady]

Again all of these statements come across as distractions from the core root of the issue at hand.

THW has lied about her credentials numerous times.

IME, anyone brazen enough to lie about something so easily disproven is quite willing to lie elsewhere in order to turn cards in their favor. Gender and Sex have nothing to do with it. And you’re right, the topic of respect becomes an easy distraction, just like all the other side points.

Dismissing the use of weaponized and performative vulnerability as gender inequality is a reach at best.

Dismissing someone’s valid experience of being doxxed and cyberbullied off SM as being “soft” is harsh to put it bluntly. Especially considering the incredible strength and courage it takes to be the first whistle-blower to point out the brazen lies about credentials. Which is where all of this started, all the other points about horses being injured and lack of substantial information being taught for extraordinary price tags surfaced later on.

[Scribbler]

Agreed.

Credible trainers may have one blowup or public confrontation of some kind in their lives. How they handle that says everything about them. Very few let that happen a second time.

A horse pro that generates drama and conflict is a red flag.

Sometimes horse pros have publicly declared disputes with other horse pros, or have a rupture with a former colleague. Again if this happens repeatedly it’s a red flag.

A “horse pro” that has public conflicts with clients, or multiple public conflicts with clients, is way more than a red flag. It’s a giant flashing do not enter hazards ahead abandon all hope ye who enter situation.

A trainer that lies about their credentials is by definition committing fraud and if they were working in any of the regulated industries, this could be a crime and they could be arrested.

[NerdyHorseLady]

@Scribbler

Credible trainers may have one blowup or public confrontation of some kind in their lives. How they handle that says everything about them. Very few let that happen a second time.

A horse pro that generates drama and conflict is a red flag.

Sometimes horse pros have publicly declared disputes with other horse pros, or have a rupture with a former colleague. Again if this happens repeatedly it’s a red flag.

A “horse pro” that has public conflicts with clients , or multiple public conflicts with clients, is way more than a red flag. It’s a giant flashing do not enter hazards ahead abandon all hope ye who enter situation.

A trainer that lies about their credentials is by definition committing fraud and if they were working in any of the regulated industries, this could be a crime and they could be arrested.

Well said

[anon68314200]

You are completely ignoring power dynamics. Big name trainers have very few KNOWN public dramas. Which does not mean there is not a whole heck of a lot of activities that get swept under the rug. Few of these ever see the light of day. And even if they do, they continue to work in the industry, very often. Paul Valiere, Barney Ward. https://equineink.com/2021/10/13/bad-sport-horse-hitman/ (The Netflix documentary sounds interesting.). The “ I stand with George Morris” group was active for a few years. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still around. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/sports/equestrian-sexual-abuse-george-morris.html. There is a LOT of drama in ANY HIGH LEVEL sport/industry. But the big players can often hide their illicit activities for years or for ever. No doubt horse pros can use an nda in exchange for a payoff as well as an ex president. I gather that a LOT of COTHERS have never worked at a big pro horse barn.

[Scribbler]

@anon68314200

You are completely ignoring power dynamics. Big name trainers have very few KNOWN public dramas. Which does not mean there is not a whole heck of a lot of activities that get swept under the rug. Few of these ever see the light of day. And even if they do, they continue to work in the industry, very often. Paul Valiere, Barney Ward. https://equineink.com/2021/10/13/bad-sport-horse-hitman/ (The Netflix documentary sounds interesting.). The “ I stand with George Morris” group was active for a few years. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still around. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/sports/equestrian-sexual-abuse-george-morris.html. There is a LOT of drama in ANY HIGH LEVEL sport/industry. But the big players can often hide their illicit activities for years or for ever. No doubt horse pros can use an nda in exchange for a payoff as well as an ex president. I gather that a LOT of COTHERS have never worked at a big pro horse barn.

I am sure they do. They are just smart enough to not blow it up on social media which is a good mark of cray cray

[meupatdoes]

Yeah. I have on purpose, and without giving a flying f*k, privately burned a few bridges in my day.

They deserved it 100%; my life was affected 0%; I got to enjoy watching karma come around; and zero people read about it on the interwebs.

Homeslice still didn’t get that cushy job he was applying (and 95% hired) for, though, and I got him back for beating up on my horse lo those many years ago.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

An online nerve release technique, perhaps!

[Old_Mac_Donald]

@anon68314200

THW has a different point of view, this does not make them “disrespectful.”

Flogging techniques that have been documented to injure horses does make her “disrespectful”, to the horse.

[NerdyHorseLady]

Walked right into that one

[volvo_240]

I’m not understanding how any of this excuses or legitimizes the subject of this thread?

If you are trying to argue she’s a victim of unfair treatment because she isn’t a “big name” I’m not buying it. Sorry.

[NerdyHorseLady]

@volvo_240

I’m not understanding how any of this excuses or legitimizes the subject of this thread?

If you are trying to argue she’s a victim of unfair treatment because she isn’t a “big name” I’m not buying it. Sorry.

Can you imagine if the whole world ran by this notion… I’m not a CEO, therefore I’m receiving unfair treatment for having my work criticized professionally."

Is this one of the dreaded long term effects of the Gold Star generation at play?

[volvo_240]

In all fairness there is dome truth to it. People in power have power to ore easily manipulate and spin situations to their advantage.

In this case THW dug her own grave. I initially thought “eh whatever maybe there is something to it and she isn’t hurting anyone”. Her behavior proved me wrong.

[Sticky_Situation]

Yeah, I’m having a hard time moving past the “lying about your credentials” part. Especially when it’s black-and-white things that can be easily verified. It isn’t just some vague resume padding like “I have 30 years of experience in the horse industry” that could mean anything from “I’m a big name professional horse trainer with tons of winning clients” to “I have a horse in my backyard and have been a cashier at the feed store for 30 years.”

If you say you’re a licensed massage therapist, it means you either will show up as a licensed massage therapist in your state, or you’re lying. And when you’re willing to publicly lie about things that can be easily verified, your word isn’t worth much. If you then play the victim when you’re caught in lies, instead of owning it or making an explanation if there is a relatively benign one to be had (“Sorry for the confusion! I used to have a massage therapy license, but I let it lapse now that I’m doing the Traveling Witch thing full time! I’ve updated the web site to be accurate.”) … well, you’re probably not someone I’d want to associate with.

[anon68314200]

Fair enough. But honestly she is not NP. She has clients. Many are happy. COTH enthusiasm for attacking people is really very Dressage Hub at times. While other times defending a trainer who shot their client. There’s some funked up judgy pants in these parts.

[sascha]

@anon68314200

She has clients. Many are happy.

Happy, not yet enlightened, whatevs, same thing.

Honestly, it’s shocking that anyone would defend someone who lies about their professional qualifications based on them having clients.

[Alterration]

I don’t mean to sound like a judgey-mcjudgey pants but are happy clients enough?

New ideas are ok. Bogus ideas can lead people down a rabbit hole and get them hurt, particularly around horses.

By the way, I like Wanless too, but she has plenty of credentials.