Thoughts on "The Traveling Horse Witch?"

[fenwai]

@fivestrideline

In the Witcher series, Geralt’s horse Roach is a mare. Though, it appears he names all his horses “Roach”. I think there’s a mare in Legend of Zelda as well, but I’m unsure.

Those are the only mares in pop culture I can recall off the top of my head, though I am not particularly familiar with a lot of media.

Yes! In Zelda, Link’s horse is a mare named Epona.

[TwiSedai]

I haven’t reread the series in a while but that sounds about right.

Though Bela was a pretty big character herself regardless of who rode her. And at least the horses almost all are named. So that’s something.

[pmysliwski]

Perhaps the reason behind some people doubling down on defending THW and her training methods is because the alternative would be unbearable for them. Besides exposing their horse(s) to someone who will not or cannot give proof of being licensed, they must admit they paid a lot of money to THW who uses training methods which are questionable at best, and which cause pain and discomfort to horse(s). Thus, the doubling down – just a thought.

[K_VanOlst]

@Equestrianette

So many fb people in equine biomechanics group have pestered me to do the balanced through movement method.

I have been incredibly disheartened by the complete infiltration/takeover of formerly interesting and educational groups focused on dressage/biomechanics that now seem to be an echo chamber for BTMM recommendations. And based on the experiences of people who have publicly shared their less than good I interactions, I am afraid to say anything when people ask for feedback about it because I do not want to be doxxed. I do see more people recommending interested folks check out this thread, so hopefully that helps prevent them from being swindled…

[sascha]

@K_VanOlst

I do see more people recommending interested folks check out this thread, so hopefully that helps prevent them from being swindled

Yay!

[libgrrl]

Oh my goodness – that group. No horse is ever sound, but there are 1500 diagnoses (none agree) for why they aren’t. I thought I might learn something from them, but reading the posts and responses has only engendered paranoia on my part.

[Equestrianette]

That’s a fact. My favorite part is when they come into my inbox accusing my horse of having NPA and crucifying my farrier (whom they don’t know is my wife) and then when I show his X-rays that prove he’s not npa it’s radio silence. So far that group has diagnosed him with kissing spine, pssm, nutritional deficiencies, npa, c6 c7 malformation, etc. the list goes on. And then when they’re not satisfied with what my vet said then the vet is wrong too

[anon68314200]

What group? I wanna see.

[libgrrl]

[Caol_Ila]

@K_VanOlst

I do see more people recommending interested folks check out this thread, so hopefully that helps prevent them from being swindled…

This thead had quite a few visits from the UK contingent over at the Horse and Hound forum because a couple people had been regularly recommending BTMM. Someone (not me, surprisingly) posted a link to the thread. People ran fast and far, including the ones who had been recommending it in the first place. Celeste slagging off an owner who PTS her horse kind of did it for them.

[libgrrl]

Facebook group for the auxiliary modalities of care – Equestrianette has provided enough info to look it up. Examples appear to be “nails” for the “hammers” in the group, sadly.

[MapleBreeze]

I dont get it. How do i look up the group?

[Equestrianette]

I will list the groups where this method was suggested to me. Not to say the creator of these groups endorse her at all, just random members whom I don’t know have suggested it to me.

Equine Biomechanics, Massage, and Chiropractic

Correct Dressage Schooling Discussion

Equine Wellness and Nutrition Group

I cross post a lot and love to hear opinions from other people, to a fault I might add. But that’s just me

[NerdyHorseLady]

Okay guys! I finally found the screenshots (which were shared with me months ago) where THW talks about ECVM

[NerdyHorseLady]

And for those who are unfamiliar with ECVM, it’s diagnosed via radiograph and it is when the entire facet joint of the C6 vertebrae is missing. But… you know, vets are wrong, and it’s just nerve impingements… what do I know?

[Scribbler]

@NerdyHorseLady

Okay guys! I finally found the screenshots that were shared with me where Celeste talks about ECVM. Buried way back in some messages in the deep dark recesses that is the interwebs.

So from what I’ve been seeing on COTH, while these neurological issues might be worryingly more prevalent in some lines, they are still extremely rare in the horse population as a whole.

How many horses would you need to have owned in your life to have multiple horses with wobblers or a malformed vertebrae? How many people have multiple horses with these issues?

Its like saying “I have multiple friends with MS and they were all misdiagnosed.” Unless you’re in the disability community you don’t have multiple friends with MS. You maybe have one. You can have multiple friends with various kinds of cancer, just like you can have owned 5 grey horses that all had some degree of melanoma. Much more common.

I call BS on this post. Wobblers is just not that common, it’s not like thrush or a suspensory tear or a hoof abscess or rainrot.

THW hasn’t had multiple horses.

[millerra]

well, sure she has - just as much as she was picked up by the shoulder by a stallion and shaken, not once but twice - because by god, that horse needed a nerve release…

[NerdyHorseLady]

Not to mention, how many vets do you know hand out diagnoses like it’s candy? I haven’t met a single one myself. Slapping on extreme, often fatal, diagnosis is grounds for loss of license. Not sure any vet would risk that…

Getting an official diagnosis is actually pretty tough, so yeah, claiming to have multiple horses with a rare disorder is even more scarce.

[Sticky_Situation]

Feel free to correct me by citing credible sources, but as far as I know, ECVM is poorly understood and there is not a 1:1 correlation between imaging and clinical presentation, and the symptoms are often vague and nonspecific. A horse will be performing poorly under saddle or behaving badly on the ground, and might or might not have a mildly abnormal neuro exam by at least 1 vet. The horse gets a million-dollar workup, a vertebral malformation is found, and it is assumed to be the root of all evil.

However, if I recall correctly vertebral malformations are also found not uncommonly in seeming sound, well-behaved horses, so there’s more needed to cause the syndrome than just the presence of a malformation. As far as I know we have no idea what makes the difference.

I don’t mean to suggest vets are throwing out diagnoses indiscriminately, but I do have to sort-of side with the Witch when it comes to approaching diagnoses like ECVM and kissing spines with some degree of skepticism since they’re very poorly understood processes that have become big buzzwords for poorly-performing horses. I disagree with her belief that the actual problem is a lack of woo, though.

Edit: not skepticism as to whether the imaging abnormalities exist. Just skepticism as to whether they are truly the root cause of all the behavior problems.

[Scribbler]

@Sticky_Situation

Feel free to correct me by citing credible sources, but as far as I know, ECVM is poorly understood and there is not a 1:1 correlation between imaging and clinical presentation, and the symptoms are often vague and nonspecific. A horse will be performing poorly under saddle or behaving badly on the ground, and might or might not have a mildly abnormal neuro exam by at least 1 vet. The horse gets a million-dollar workup, a vertebral malformation is found, and it is assumed to be the root of all evil.

However, if I recall correctly vertebral malformations are also found not uncommonly in seeming sound, well-behaved horses, so there’s more needed to cause the syndrome than just the presence of a malformation. As far as I know we have no idea what makes the difference.

I don’t mean to suggest vets are throwing out diagnoses indiscriminately, but I do have to sort-of side with the Witch when it comes to approaching diagnoses like ECVM and kissing spines with some degree of skepticism since they’re very poorly understood processes that have become big buzzwords for poorly-performing horses. I disagree with her belief that the actual problem is a lack of woo, though.

I think in very typical MLM fashion, THW is savvy enough to figure out what medical issues are poorly understood, just emerging into discussion, hard to definitely diagnose, and have variable outcomes. These are the best ailments to target snake oil at, because there isn’t a clear medical solution yet. Just because she’s targeted these illnesses, doesn’t mean she has a correct solution either.

This is like selling essential oils for chronic fatigue syndrome, something that exists but can’t be definitively diagnosed.