Thoughts on "The Traveling Horse Witch?"

[NerdyHorseLady]

@anon68314200

You need to provide a lot more documentation than a narrative by an anonymous you. Plenty of perfectly ‘fine’ horses deteriorate for 100’s of reasons. Could have been completely unrelated to TWH, or could have been. But I doubt very much you have any independent quantitative information to put forth. If your horse was going ‘into a panic’ then your were WAY passed the point where you should have changed directions. Sounds like you missed the turn off exit sign a ways back.

This is extraordinarily rude. I DO have plenty of documentation. However, I will repeat myself for the umpteenth dozen time, I am limited as to the details I can share on COTH specifically due to wanting to keep my identity private. Considering the last person who came forward was doxxed, yeah, I’m not stupid.

Not sure if you took note, but I have been careful to only refer to my horse as my horse. I will not share breed, age, sex, the specific injury, photos, video, veterinary records of the injury, etc etc (all of which I do have) because these are identifying factors. However, I DO share my very real experience with my horse who had nothing wrong prior as a word of caution here.

I have been an equestrian for decades, I am not some ignorant fool who can’t read a horse. By panic, I mean the panic that comes prior to the explosion, I know how to read those panic signs and stop before an explosion. Did I say explosion? No, I said panic. Panic precedes explosion IME.

[stillgoing]

seems pretty clear from your description that your horse started having troubles right after the clinic, and certainly I would assume it was related to what was done in the clinic, vs. some other odd thing that had been brewing for awhile. Your description of the timing was clear to me, no trouble understanding the timeline and events. Reminds me of the last chiro adjustment to my neck I had after my car accident which immediately resulted in pain and numbness in my arm. It was scary, and caused me to have an MRI and meet with my GP, who referred me to a different, and legit. practice. It then took several months to resolve. I’m sure you read your horse well and correctly.

[NerdyHorseLady]

Thank you. Yes, it was a drastic overnight change in behavior. At the time, there were no other factors involved, it’s quite easy to isolate the cause in this instance. And yes, my vet and I believe the injury is much like the experience you’ve described. Some sort of a deep tissue bruising or fascia tear which irritated the nerves causing hyper reactivity to even the lightest touch.

So much for nerve release therapy, more like nerve entrapment if you ask me.

[Ajierene]

As an aside, I remember this one horse I rode had a similar issue but way different…

He was always pleasant and personable, easy to halter and willing. Well, one day I’m slipping the halter over his ears (I tend to undo the throatlatch clip rather than unbuckle unless I have to) and he had a huge reaction including pulling back and tossing his head. After two more attempts, I unbuckled and brought him in to ride thinking this was weird.

In the cross ties, I was talking with one of the barn workers, who is pretty knowledgeable, while tacking up. Go to put the bridle on and same reaction. We were both taken aback and discussed it - I could take the bridle apart and get it over his head but he was obviously uncomfortable and the bridle/riding may cause him more discomfort and pain. He is normally such a good boy that we decided to put him back and let him heal.

I texted my trainer to tell her and she was fine with it. We figure someone in the field grabbed ahold of his ear and yanked it just right to cause some issue - no swelling, bleeding, or marks. He recovered by the next time I went to ride him.

Just noting that experience to illustrate how if you know a horse and are paying attention - like NerdyHorseLady and her horse - you can tell when something isn’t right even if there aren’t obvious signs.

I have had similar experiences and “debates” about my own horse when we spend months trying to figure out what was wrong with her last summer. Finally had the chiropractor out - difference between The Horse Witch and my chiropractor? My horse was 100x better immediately and only “regression” was initially close to needing another visit when she started sliding backward a bit - but sliding backward from that 100x better, NOT from where she was before the first visit!

[Sticky_Situation]

Off topic, but this is exactly why my horses don’t get chiropractic, nor do I. There’s no quality evidence it works but there is plenty of documentation of real harm caused by it, at least in humans. And not just minor harm like sore muscles … neck manipulation by chiropractors is known to cause vertebral artery dissection. It’s NOT a benign modality and it’s not supported by science.

[stillgoing]

@Sticky_Situation

neck manipulation by chiropractors is known to cause vertebral artery dissection

yes it can for sure. that said, there was a great chiropractor on my medical team who did very specific isolated adjustments nowhere near my neck that helped a lot; i had a low back injury. but those that do the usual pattern of neck then down are not ones i’d ever go to again.

[axl]

I must reply that the right chiropractor changed my life. I underwent a year of physical therapy (yeah, okay, Army providers so there is that) and still walked with a limp and insane pain from 3 herniated disks. It took 8 months of seeing the chiro 4x per week and then a slow tapering off in visits, but I am as clinically sound as any random person pushing 50.

I will never be able to thank that doc enough. On the subject, though, he had a trusted friend fill in for him while he was on vacation once, and I got off the table as soon as she touched me.

I would like to add, because it seems quite pertinent here, that the first several months of that treatment were literally just laying on precisely placed foam blocks with some stretching. It took that long for my nerves (physical and mental) to relax enough to do ANY true adjustment. When your nerves are that inflamed, there is no way any intense or sharp adjustment could not do further harm.

YMMV of course, but I’m addressing both the comments about chiro and TTHW’s alleged ‘treatment’ that caused horses to panic and display fight/flight reactions (allegedly, ProAmEq :)).

[endlessclimb]

@Sticky_Situation

neck manipulation by chiropractors is known to cause vertebral artery dissection

Fun story. I threw my back out once, and went in for chiro work in hopes that it would help. He manipulated my neck, WOW did it hurt. I let him do the other side so that I wasn’t lop-sided, and then I looked him in the eye and said “you will never do that to me again.” That level of pain can not be good for you.

Acupuncture didn’t work for me, either. The only thing that worked was painful targeted massage by a VERY strong woman who (if she wasn’t) should have been named Helga. I felt like I got hit by a train when she was done, but 3 sessions and it was fixed.

[Scribbler]

@endlessclimb

@Sticky_Situation

neck manipulation by chiropractors is known to cause vertebral artery dissection

Fun story. I threw my back out once, and went in for chiro work in hopes that it would help. He manipulated my neck, WOW did it hurt. I let him do the other side so that I wasn’t lop-sided, and then I looked him in the eye and said “you will never do that to me again.” That level of pain can not be good for you.

Acupuncture didn’t work for me, either. The only thing that worked was painful targeted massage by a VERY strong woman who (if she wasn’t) should have been named Helga. I felt like I got hit by a train when she was done, but 3 sessions and it was fixed.

I tried both chiro and massage for ongoing chronic back pain, and settled on massage. I was getting muscle spasms and this sorted then out. Chiro really scared me.

[TwiSedai]

I love chiro everywhere but the neck. The last two I went to, I asked both to NOT do my neck and both did my beck, it aggravated the muscle spasms I get there and I got headaches both times. Haven’t been brave enough to go back, don’t have the extra money anyways. I do feel like everything else could benefit but dear God just leave my neck alone.

[sascha]

@endlessclimb

The only thing that worked was painful targeted massage by a VERY strong woman who (if she wasn’t) should have been named Helga. I felt like I got hit by a train when she was done, but 3 sessions and it was fixed.

It might be a bit out Celeste’s wheelhouse, but maybe she could help with marketing for “Helga?” I’m envisioning a Viking helmet with a bunch of woowoo crystals - largest one right in the centre of the forehead vicinity. Perhaps some Wonder Woman forcefield bracelets too. They could be credited with giving her the needed strength to apply sufficient pressure. Helga’s braids would be wrapped and tied with the skin of a wooly mammoth she hunted and killed (respectfully, of course, loves) herself when she was a mere girl of 12. Helga isn’t her birth name. It was given to her by the mammoth as it drew its last breath. The mammoth said, “Go forth with thine new name and heal thine people. You are a warrior with a kind heart who knows things that many other people know, but you know them better because you haven’t studied them. Go forth, Helga, go forth.”

The mammoth may have been rabid, or at least delirious with blood loss and pain. It’s not clear. But it had a divine vision and shared it with our revered healer. That much we know.

Please note, this is not in any way a negative comment on deep tissue massage. It’s a thing. It’s a regulated mode of therapy. I just couldn’t help but flesh out the Helga remark

[Kduplantis]

<need hilarity emoji🤣>

[MapleBreeze]

Can we add a magikal feather duster from tj max to it? I had to use one on a horse the other day instead of a whip (we are still relearning that its for information and touch is okay) but as I was using it i got think it could definitly go in some magikal woo woo wheelhouse with the pagan parelli wheel.

[outerbanks77]

@MapleBreeze

Can we add a magikal feather duster from tj max to it? I had to use one on a horse the other day instead of a whip (we are still relearning that its for information and touch is okay) but as I was using it i got think it could definitly go in some magikal woo woo wheelhouse with the pagan parelli wheel.

LOL, I am picturing Glenda the Good Horse Witch! I hope the feather duster was pink!

[Paint_Party]

I’m getting a whole Parelli woo combined with faintly feather touching vibe. So carrot stick + feather duster = Magikal Carrot Duster.

Soon to be trademarked and sold at all horse expos!

[sascha]

But there’s a nice firm end in that Magikal Carrot Duster for ‘nerve release’ when the power of faint feather touching is just not enough to cause real damage. Bonus, no Wonder Woman bracelets needed to fend off biting as the operator of the Magikal Carrot Duster will be far enough away from the victim to be in danger of being bitten.

[Goodgelding]

I’m a lurker who has been lurking here for a very long time. I was out of horses until the pandemic, decided life is too short and jumped back in. I’m an adult “ammy”. I’m a decent rider with a medical degree, so THW and this thread have been interesting too me.

I could care less about a show or any competition. I just want to ride and spend time with my kids and my horse.

This woman and her methods are so scary. I agree that it’s a lot like a faith healer. It really bothers me and I worry that one day it will be irreversible.

The only reason I’ve never made an account here is because of the attitude towards people like me here.

While I’m here, most of the equine programs for bodywork are pretty comprehensive and are 6 months to two years of part time work on top of a chiro or DVM to be a horse chiropractor. I’m not sure about MT or other bodywork. More than 500 hours.

[trubandloki]

@Goodgelding

The only reason I’ve never made an account here is because of the attitude towards people like me here.

What do you mean?
There are lots of people on this forum who do not compete.
Is that the part you are referring to, or is there some other reason you say this?

Hang around, have some fun. Post. Welcome.

[hoopoe]

agree with @trubandloki. many of us here do not show.
Many of us here, like myself, no longer ride.
but we bring a lifetime of experience and will always consider ourselves horsewomen ( and men)
we are always learning and always interested
and always ready to lend an ear.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Welcome back to horses, and to COTH!

Lots of us “sand dawdlers” here, hope you stick around