Thoughts on "The Traveling Horse Witch?"

[Scribbler]

There is certainly the phenomenal especially in dressage of a conscientious rider getting to a certain level where the short cuts come home to roost and they start having riding induced physical issues in the horse as well as behaviorial.ones. if the rider is conscientious they may switch trainers and try new strategies. If not, they can euthanize or retire and start all over again.

Usually folks get into this predicament because they don’t have much knowledge in biomechanics or ground work or body work or hoof angles etc. So while they are advanced riders, they are newbies at this other sphere of horsemanship. Hence potentially vulnerable to snake oil salesmen who pretend to be intelligent and qualified. Also likely they have been up to now traveling on the expert and credentialed side of vets and trainers and farriers, and perhaps not questioning any of the Best Advice, so unaware of the depths of incompetence and fraud on the outskirts of horse world.

But very often also having no need to think critically about the Best Advice they are getting from their accredited and mainstream horse team. No one questions vet advice on rehabbing pulled tendons, or farrier advice on bar shoes or pads, or trainer saying ride forward into contact, don’t let him get away with that, etc. You are paying well qualified professionals to make your decisions. You may not even have control over your horses feed in a quality barn. So you don’t have a need to think critically until it’s too late.

[Ghazzu]

Yes.
I used to know a well-respected local trainer who knew she needed a Coggins test to compete, but had zero idea of what it was for and indeed, what EIA was.

[Lunabear1988]

Edited: too much identifying information and assumptions when I don’t know the whole story so I decided to delete part of this.

I do think there is a phenomenon on the internet where nitpicking is encouraged in the pursuit of perfection that is unattainable. I also notice a trend where people feel almost tortured by dressage. Like they don’t agree with it or they don’t agree with competition but at the same time they seem unable to just let it go and do a different discipline altogether. Like deep down they feel like dressage is the highest level of horsemanship but at the same time they think it’s evil. I can see how that can lead to some inner turmoil for sure.

There is a trainer that I have rode with and still follow online a bit who is now on this bandwagon too. I stopped riding with her because all of a sudden it seem like she was following all these different theories. I couldn’t ride with her because it was confusing. I didn’t know what her beliefs were anymore and I’m not sure she knew either that she often gave conflicting advice week to week.

At the time I rode with her there is starting to be a sprinkling of art2ride focus (excessive long and low riding) with vaquero style( think buck brannaman) then french classical (jec Luc Cornille ) all while trying to be an eventer and riding with regular dressage clinicians. Now there’s this new thing, balance through movement. There’s nothing inherently bad with these things or SOME of these. But after leaving that program (years ago.) I see someone who’s very lost and tortured. There is love for the horses, obviously but a lot of inner turmoil with many of these trainers who hop from one ideology to another.

Honestly I just want to hug some of these women. To tell them they are enough. And no one is a perfect horsewoman anyway. We all just are trying our best!

[Lunabear1988]

I’ve honestly seen some of these people that really get deep into these “programs” have nearly mental breakdowns because sometimes the people that idolize say something that they don’t agree with or that contradicts someone else that they idolize. Instead of just living by take what you want and leave the rest I’ve seen it cause almost an identity crisis. I guess this is part of the program’s(general, many programs )cult mentality. You are told if you disagree with anything that you don’t care about your horse and your abusive!! None of us want to feel like we don’t care about our horse and that we are God forbid, abusive. It’s so manipulative.

[tbchick84]

The infestation has reached my local area. We have a well known massage therapist who is now advertising her nerve release skills and showing horses who “have obvious nerve compressions” blah blah blah. I didn’t realize you can actually see nerves from the outside, and people seem to be drinking up her new skill like kool-aide. I find it a bit disturbing and worried it will ultimately be damaging for some unsuspecting client’s horse somewhere down the road.

[Edre]

I do think there is a phenomenon on the internet where nitpicking is encouraged in the pursuit of perfection that is unattainable. I also notice a trend where people feel almost tortured by dressage.

Honestly, I think this is really insightful. We forget that dressage is about training and yes, there is (in general) certain ideals - there is correct equitation, for example, correct posture, a correct way of going - but at the end of the day, we as humans are never 100% ideal. The horses we ride are never 100% ideal. Very few of us fit a physical ideal 100% (and most of us, I warrant, would admit we’re far, far from being 100% of the ideal ) so rather than flagellating ourselves over this quest for perfection… I think we need to remember “progress, not perfect.”

There is much to love in the journey. There is a lot to be said for learning to love the questions (to badly paraphrase Rilke) and maybe one day we find ourselves coming into the answers.

Remembering to find joy, remembering to say “Well, it wasn’t perfect, but (X) or (Y) or (Z) went well, or I am proud of (A) or (B) or ©” is so important. Otherwise we lose perspective, and we lose sight of not just why we do what we do, but how far we have come in the process.

[outerbanks77]

@Lunabear1988

Like deep down they feel like dressage is the highest level of horsemanship but at the same time they think it’s evil.

This is so well put. It kind of explains many of the internet keyboard dressage critics who seem obsessed with running around screaming rollkur every time a horse goes BTV. I’ve started to think that because dressage is presented as such a delicate and harmonious discipline, people are in for a shock when they realize how demanding it is, and start looking for rationale for an easier way and often go down the rabbit hole.

[Lunabear1988]

Yes. Well put! It’s supposed to be fun. Yes, we should strive to be the best horse people/riders we can but that should not over shadow the joy found in the journey! It’s okay to not be perfect.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Excellent post, @Edre.

[Lunabear1988]

I posted this comment elsewhere but I think it’s fitting here. It was in a group where they were talking about some people’s obsession with frame, to an unforgiving degree. As in no moment of btv was acceptable to some, no matter how green, the circumstance or mere seconds of time. The poster said people like that have the best of intentions but to what affect?

My reply "I’ll add to this that I think we are actually saying the same thing. Personally I think people that obsess over where the head is at all times actually don’t have 100% good intentions. I think there are good intentions in there for sure but I actually think there’s some sense of superiority that’s driving that behavior a little too. My only point was occasionally behind the vertical, above the vertical, sluggish, out behind happens, and as long as we keep good training in mind I think it’s okay. Not one rider or horse is perfect after all. Strive for the best, but don’t expect from everyone all the time "

[sascha]

@Edre

rather than flagellating ourselves over this quest for perfection… I think we need to remember “progress, not perfect.

Yes. Just had this discussion with someone yesterday after their irritating encounter with one of the cult members. My reminder to shrug off the negativity was, “It’s good to strive for perfection as a way to keep moving forward, but if we hold out until we get there we will never even sit on our horses let alone train them.”

Enjoy the journey. Strive to do better. Do not sideline yourself or your horse due to lack of perfection.

The first encounter I had with the person who got a dose of witchy nonsense was an explanation of crookedness due to injury and age. I said it then and I keep repeating it, “It’s ok. It’s not about being perfect. It’s about learning to communicate in a way that makes sense to both you and the horse. Don’t worry that your spine isn’t straight and your hips are seized up. Horses carry para riders who can be much more limited than you and much more crooked, but they work out a way to communicate that works to allow the horse to be the best at its job.” Interestingly, since starting to buy into that logic, that rider has become straighter and more supple. It’s amazing what the mind can accomplish when it becomes less burdened by our imperfections and focuses on more useful things like good, easy to understand communication.

[Curly_Feather]

I compare it to taking photos of myself in a pilates workout. While I’m doing different exercises in plank position, are my hips perfectly level at every split second of the exercise? NO. Because of many reasons - I’m still working on getting better at the particular exercise; it’s just difficult; normally I can do it very well but it’s just damn difficult TODAY; I’m tired; my wrists hurt; I’ve had a momentary loss of focus; I’ve lost my balance.

Dressage is difficult for horses. Expert riders can make that cycle of balancing/re-balancing very quick and smooth. My mere mortal self needs a few steps.

[Lunabear1988]

Exactly!!

[VodkaRedbullx2]

I’ve seen a lot on social media lately about “consent based approaches”. Is that coming from her or someone else? Do they ever ride with that theory? At what point does the horse give consent and how do they know?

[Stella_Zangrilli]

Good afternoon, I use consent horse when I treat them but I believe EMOTIONAL HORSEMANSHIP (Lockie Philipps) talked about it recently and I believe he was the first one unless I am being wrong

[Lunabear1988]

There is a Liberty/but less dressage trainer near me that has been talking about consent for years.

But yes very common language from that program.

[sascha]

@VodkaRedbullx2

Is that coming from her or someone else?

That garbage has been around quite a while. I remember having to pick my jaw up off the floor after I heard a barn mate go on about it a few years ago. In my mind, “Ok, crazy box has been ticked, underlined, and highlighted. Stay clear of this one and mind the horse too because it’s bound to be one that doesn’t know any better than to walk all over people.” <- turned out to be truer than I would have liked!

[sascha]

@Stella_Zangrilli

Good afternoon, I use consent horse when I treat them

What???

[Stella_Zangrilli]

If the horse shows signs of discomfort, ears backwards etc etc I tend to use a different approach because as a masseur I need his collaboration

[sascha]

That is paying attention to how the horse is reacting and responding appropriately. Totally normal.

Consent is a totally different thing that is completely off the rails crazy.