tightrope ACL surgery for 75lb dog? anyone have any luck?

[bluedapple]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7849156]
We have done tightrope on larger dogs. Its more about the tibial angles rather than size of patient. Tplo is a very standard cruciate surgery and has a low failure rate. This surgery is probably the most common for medium to large dogs. Usually our patients go home the following day and follow a 12 week recovery plan (but most are fully functional by 3-10 days).[/QUOTE]

thank you for this! how rare is is for your practice to do the tightrope on larger dogs and what would you say the failure rate is? Do you think the recovery is easier?

[bluedapple]

is fishing line and tightrope the same thing?

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=wendy;7849214]

TPLO is a scam. There isn’t a shred of solid evidence that it produces better results than even the old fishing line surgery and lots of evidence that it has a longer recovery time and more side effects than any other kind of CCL repair surgery. The vets love it because it makes them a lot of money- they push it on clients despite the lack of evidence.

None of the CCL repairs seem to produce outstanding results. I don’t know of a single dog that returned to 100% after any kind of treatment for CCL. Most of the really poor results were after TPLO surgery, but that’s just a personal experience. In the scientific studies, there’s no apparent difference in outcomes between TPLO surgery and “Fish line” repair. The few studies done find that tightrope tends to give better results than TPLO.[/QUOTE]

Well I’ve gone through 4 of the TPLO surgeries and the dogs were 100% after the surgeries, for at least 11 years. One of the dogs is still alive and is 12 years post-op and still 100%. So there’s n=4 for you.

I will say that I used to housesit for people with Akitas (very large; probably 130-140 lbs) and one of them had the regular ligament suturing surgery, which failed about a year later. It was repeated and failed again about a year later (which the owners just left that way).

[S1969]

[QUOTE=bluedapple;7849241]
I love you guys for all of your help, but now I don’t know what to do. haha. I would much rather do the tightrope bc it has such an easier recovery and also they say if they blow one out they will probably blow out the other. The TPLO is $3500 and the tightrope is $1500[/QUOTE]

What makes you think that the tightrope has an easier recovery? I would question this fact specifically. Unlike the TPLO or TTA, I believe (maybe I am wrong) that the tightrope surgery needs scar tissue to form in order to make it successful. I would be very careful about the rest and rehab instructions in order to make it successful.

My last dog had a medial collateral repair and the recovery was very hard for him; he was in a lot of pain. I’m not sure how much harder that was than the tightrope surgery, or TPLO/TTA, but when he later had the TTA we had to call the vet and ask if we could take him off pain meds because he felt SO good we were afraid he would damage the surgery.

I certainly wouldn’t take any one person’s opinion on this board as solid advice – e.g. the idea that TPLO is a scam. My dog was never 100% the same after his TTA (his flexibility was diminished), but we always assume it was more because of the medial collateral plates in his leg already. However, he ran HARD on that leg for the rest of his life; and the difference between the pre-surgery and post-surgery activity was amazing. Talk to your surgeon about how many surgeries he/she has performed and how well the patients are doing – what were they like before the tear (e.g. couch potato or working dog) and what are they like now?

[vtdobes]

My 6 yr old 70lb Dobe had her 100% torn CCL repaired via TTA this past February. The total cost was $1995 ($1500 of that was paid by her insurance!).

She had a remarkably easy and fast recovery. This September she was back running 6 miles with me!

I would do the TTA again in a heartbeat over any other of this kind.

[Justmyluck]

[QUOTE=vtdobes;7849668]
My 6 yr old 70lb Dobe had her 100% torn CCL repaired via TTA this past February. The total cost was $1995 ($1500 of that was paid by her insurance!).

She had a remarkably easy and fast recovery. This September she was back running 6 miles with me!

I would do the TTA again in a heartbeat over any other of this kind.[/QUOTE]

Holy hell! TTA surgery in my area is $3500. Our barn owner just had one done on their dog and my parents just did one on their dog. Implants cost between 500-600 alone. Was yours done by a board certified surgeon?

Both these animals were weight bearing the day after their surgery and my parents dog just finished her 12 week recovery plan and her activity is back to normal and she has been great. So as for recovery time the above post mentioned about TPLO/TTA surgeries is complete BS.

[bluedapple]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7849742]
Holy hell! TTA surgery in my area is $3500. Our barn owner just had one done on their dog and my parents just did one on their dog. Implants cause between 500-600 alone. Was yours done by a board certified surgeon?

Both these animals were weight bearing the day after their surgery and my parents dog just finished her 12 week recovery plan and her activity is back to normal and she has been great. So as for recovery time the above post mentioned about TPLO/TTA surgeries is complete BS.[/QUOTE]

I know, right!!! That’s an incredible price!

[candico]

My sister works for a clinic that does rehabilitation of dogs post-surgery. She would never recommend the lateral stitch for large, active dogs and also thinks it is very important to find a board-certified surgeon. Even though the other surgeries are more expensive, not only does the recovery take much longer with the lateral stitch and chance of failure seems higher, the other leg is more likely to “go” as it has to compensate for the less stable, lateral stitch leg. I guess differing results will also largely depend on the skills of the vets you have available to you. And for older dogs, request Tramadol over Metacam and Rimadyl as the latter two seem to be harsher on the liver and kidneys which have already been taxed by the anesthesia. Milk thistle is good to add as well.

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7849742]
Holy hell! TTA surgery in my area is $3500. Our barn owner just had one done on their dog and my parents just did one on their dog. Implants cost between 500-600 alone. Was yours done by a board certified surgeon?

Both these animals were weight bearing the day after their surgery and my parents dog just finished her 12 week recovery plan and her activity is back to normal and she has been great. So as for recovery time the above post mentioned about TPLO/TTA surgeries is complete BS.[/QUOTE]

Yes, he specializes in orthopedic surgery. If anyone in my area has a dog with torn ACL/CCL…he is the one to go to!!

My dog was also weight bearing the day after…was great!

[bluedapple]

Wow, VTDobes, he sounds great. would you be so kind to share his contact info?

[bluedapple]

[QUOTE=candico;7849791]
My sister works for a clinic that does rehabilitation of dogs post-surgery. She would never recommend the lateral stitch for large, active dogs and also thinks it is very important to find a board-certified surgeon. Even though the other surgeries are more expensive, not only does the recovery take much longer with the lateral stitch and chance of failure seems higher, the other leg is more likely to “go” as it has to compensate for the less stable, lateral stitch leg. I guess differing results will also largely depend on the skills of the vets you have available to you. And for older dogs, request Tramadol over Metacam and Rimadyl as the latter two seem to be harsher on the liver and kidneys which have already been taxed by the anesthesia. Milk thistle is good to add as well.[/QUOTE]

thank you! thank you and thank you everyone. You are so helpful!

Candico, Is Tramadol a pain reliever or joint supplement?

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=bluedapple;7849855]
thank you! thank you and thank you everyone. You are so helpful!

Candico, Is Tramadol a pain reliever or joint supplement?[/QUOTE]

Tramadol is a pain reliever related to morphine. Tends to have very few drug interactions and relatively gentle on liver and kidneys

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=wendy;7849214]
Tightrope is fairly recent and is very different than the old “Fishing line” surgery, don’t confuse the two.

TPLO is a scam. There isn’t a shred of solid evidence that it produces better results than even the old fishing line surgery and lots of evidence that it has a longer recovery time and more side effects than any other kind of CCL repair surgery. The vets love it because it makes them a lot of money- they push it on clients despite the lack of evidence.

None of the CCL repairs seem to produce outstanding results. I don’t know of a single dog that returned to 100% after any kind of treatment for CCL. Most of the really poor results were after TPLO surgery, but that’s just a personal experience. In the scientific studies, there’s no apparent difference in outcomes between TPLO surgery and “Fish line” repair. The few studies done find that tightrope tends to give better results than TPLO.[/QUOTE]

I have seen multiple dogs return to full function following TPLO surgery, including competitive dogs. And the folks who refer the dogs for surgery–the ones doing the work up on the dogs typically aren’t the ones making money. I don’t do orthopedic surgery so there isn’t any financial incentive for me to recommend TPLO vs rest and medication. The surgeons tell me they see less arthritis with TPLO and TTA vs fishing line/tightrope.

[chancellor2]

My 65lb pit bull had TPLO 6 or so years ago and has not had ANY problems with the leg since. I am so glad we did it for her. She runs around chasing her frisbee and her younger “brother” just fine now.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=Marshfield;7849882]
Tramadol is a pain reliever related to morphine. Tends to have very few drug interactions and relatively gentle on liver and kidneys[/QUOTE]

I thought that Tramadol was not a narcotic?

Huh. I guess it’s not. Binds to the opioid receptor and has some SSRI/SNRI effects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

How interesting! I do have a dog that cannot tolerate tramadol at all, but have otherwise used it successfully in others. I know in people it doesn’t do anything for some–I wonder if pets are the same way? I know I get zero pain relief when I take it.

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=bluedapple;7849837]
Wow, VTDobes, he sounds great. would you be so kind to share his contact info?[/QUOTE]

Sure! Dr Kenney was super!

http://hinesburgbristolvet.com/surgery.pml

[CrowneDragon]

I don’t think that tramadol is strong enough pain relief after such invasive surgery as TPLO. I used it for my dog’s arthritis but it didn’t help that much. He couldn’t have NSAIDs as an older guy and when he had significant surgery (large mass removal and cystotomy) he got morphine/hydromorphone initially and tramadol after a few days. His vet said that tramadol doesn’t provide strong pain relief. When my dogs had the TPLOs they were younger and healthier, and got Dermaxx or Rimadyl after surgery and I think for the pain relief it provides the potential side effects are worth the risk, particularly for such a short time. I’m sure the anti-inflammatory effect is also helpful.

[bluedapple]

ok, friends . Just spoke with Dr Kennedy and he does the “FHT” surgery for $2200.00. She says they use their own ligament, but its not tightrpoe. thoughts?

[bluedapple]

Fibular Head Transposition: This technique uses the lateral collateral ligament to do the work of the cruciate ligament. The head of the fibula is rotated and the ligament is redirected to mimic the cruciate ligament and is held in place with pins and wires.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=wendy;7849214]
TPLO is a scam. There isn’t a shred of solid evidence that it produces better results than even the old fishing line surgery and lots of evidence that it has a longer recovery time and more side effects than any other kind of CCL repair surgery. The vets love it because it makes them a lot of money- they push it on clients despite the lack of evidence.
…The few studies done find that tightrope tends to give better results than TPLO.[/QUOTE]

Can you link to those studies?

As a few others have responded since your post, I saw the opposite working at a specialty ortho surgery and canine rehab facility: TPLO’s were weight-bearing more and faster than lateral suture.

The owner following the recovery plan also plays a big role in the outcome.

Here is a good description of options with images.
TPLO: Tibial Plateau Leveling Osteotomy
TTA: Tibial Tuberosity Advancement (TTA)