When I first started out in the equestrian industry (Oh so many years ago) I was always taught that you should not breed unregistered mares as they are worth nothing. I have always been a firm believer in this until my current mare. My now mare is unregistered however, has exceptional confirmation. She has minor flaws - toed out in the back - but nothing that affects her soundness. Mentally she’s a sweet mare with a great disposition. I am in love with her build, mind and personality. I am coming up here ready to graduate college and I’m looking for a prospect jumper (my mare is 12 looking for something younger). So my question is…is breeding my unregistered mare so that I get the quality baby that I desire a good idea? I have found several studs that would compliment her and have spoken with several breeding consultants at varies farms about potentially breeding and if my mare would be a good match. 
do you know her breeding??
Nada, I got her from a western farm down the street. They bought her via auction as she was sold as a western pleasure horse. She was obviously not a western pleasure horse hence why I got a call to see if I was interested as my gelding was injured at the time. I have had two vets look at her, they think she’s arabian quarter horse mixed. I have had judges say pure quarter horse and Arabian breeders think polish arabian. I have taken her in multiple sport horse in hand classes in our area and we have won reserve champion several times.
If you are breeding for yourself and/or have enough knowledge of conformation, type, temperament I’d breed her. You KNOW what you have, know what you want and know the best choice of a stallion to cross for that end. That is what horsemen used to do before things got so “registration”/approval fixated!! JMO
But it is more risky. Breeding is supposed to make the outcome more predictable… If you don’t really know what you have your product (the foal) ist not very predictable…If you want to keep it for yourself, thats fine… Will you also keep it if you don’t like what you get??
I agree, if you are breeding for yourself, and wouldn’t mind a carbon copy of the mare herself, go for it. If you breed to a warmblood (sounds like you probably are, if you are wanting a jumper), I believe (and could be wrong, since I’ve never bred a warmblood!) you can get a certificate of pedigree for the foal. In case you ever do need to sell him/her on, it might help with value.
Sheila
I wouldn’t breed her as you really don’t know what she is. Sometimes when you cross two different looking breeds, the outcome is really nice, but when you then breed that cross, you get a Frankenstein.
For example I knew of a very nice Clyde Cross mare that was bred to a nice TB stallion. The foal ended up with the height and body of a pure Clydesdale, but the legs of a thoroughbred. The baby could not stay sound once mature as it just didn’t have the legs for the size of body.
A horse I used to own was also a Frankenstein in a sense…her dam was QH/Arabian and sire was a nice warmblood. My mare got short legs and neck, but a warmblood size/length body. (also bench knees and poor hocks). The dam was nice, the stallion was amazing, but the genetics just didn’t work together.
Cheaper to buy something on the ground and ready to start likely anyway…
This is why I wanted opinions. I have always grown up on the idea that bloodlines were started so that we could predicted the quality of the baby. Jumping in and breeding my mare could potentially end one or two ways. 1 being she was well bred and her quality traits and the stud’s quality traits will produce an awesome jumper baby or 2. she was bred to some hill jacked shit and will produce a baby that can’t even walk straight or carries genetic disorders that if I had the pedigree I would have known not to breed.
Sorry, terrible idea.
Not being registered is not your biggest reason to not breed this mare. You have ZERO clue about her pedigree (a separate issue ). You cannot expect/predict what she will throw, especially if she’s a cross herself. F-1 crosses are notoriously unpredictable in terms of what is passed along. She could just as likely to throw to a dominant predecessor that you would NEVER want a piece of. You cannot expect her to reproduce herself.
I’m sorry to be a downer, but there are many more reasons to not breed this mare.
What if the baby isn’t what you hope? Four years from this spring you would have spent as much money and more time than you would if you just go buy a young prospect you can choose for yourself.
I have thought about it, however I am tried of redoing peoples mistakes. Therefore if I were to buy a non ridden 2/3 year old and more than likely it would cost me an arm and a leg.
[QUOTE=arlosmine;7814538]
Sorry, terrible idea.
Not being registered is not your biggest reason to not breed this mare. You have ZERO clue about her pedigree (a separate issue ). You cannot expect/predict what she will throw, especially if she’s a cross herself. F-1 crosses are notoriously unpredictable in terms of what is passed along. She could just as likely to throw to a dominant predecessor that you would NEVER want a piece of. You cannot expect her to reproduce herself.
I’m sorry to be a downer, but there are many more reasons to not breed this mare.
What if the baby isn’t what you hope? Four years from this spring you would have spent as much money and more time than you would if you just go buy a young prospect you can choose for yourself.[/QUOTE]
You are not a downer… Like I have stated, I want opinions on whether or not this is a reasonable idea. I have been in the horse industry for years now. Rarely have I been involved in a serious breeding industry where I can respect opinions of the breeders. If I am going to breed, I want to do it knowing I am doing what’s best whether that be breeding my mare or not.
[QUOTE=hoosierjumper;7814448]
When I first started out in the equestrian industry (Oh so many years ago) I was always taught that you should not breed unregistered mares as they are worth nothing. I have always been a firm believer in this until my current mare. My now mare is unregistered however, has exceptional confirmation. She has minor flaws - toed out in the back - but nothing that affects her soundness. Mentally she’s a sweet mare with a great disposition. I am in love with her build, mind and personality. I am coming up here ready to graduate college and I’m looking for a prospect jumper (my mare is 12 looking for something younger). So my question is…is breeding my unregistered mare so that I get the quality baby that I desire a good idea? I have found several studs that would compliment her and have spoken with several breeding consultants at varies farms about potentially breeding and if my mare would be a good match. 
[/QUOTE]
You do realize that there is no way of predicting what your mare will produce?
It is not so much that her sire and dam are unregistered, but that you have no idea which horses they are, at all…
If you are prepared to keep the foal no matter what its conformation and suitability, than have at it.
Otherwise, don’t.
She may be quite unlikely to reproduce herself. She may reproduce her (unknown) sire or dam, and since you have not seen either :eek:, I would not take that chance.
Think about the horse. How old are you? I ask that because I am at an age where I want to keep my horses but not outlive them. Of course I know I could die tomorrow or live to be 100, but I may not want horses when I am seventy or eighty. So I bought older horses.
If you or your family have to sell this new baby, how will it do on the market? I’m sure we can all agree that a well-trained horse will fare best, but a well-trained and well-bred horse will have the best future of all.
You can probably tell that I am in the same camp with those who say Don’t Breed. You won’t be able to really ride the new horse for four or five years because you need to wait for the mare to come into season, then the months of gestation (if she takes on the first try), three more years and you have a green bean which may or may not be as good as your mare. And your sweet mare could die. Pregnancy is a risky business. I only know this from reading a lot of sad stories on the sport horse breeding forum. Also, what if the foal has some problem and cannot be ridden? What will you do with it?
[QUOTE=hoosierjumper;7814539]
I have thought about it, however I am tried of redoing peoples mistakes. Therefore if I were to buy a non ridden 2/3 year old and more than likely it would cost me an arm and a leg.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you have already made up your mind.
If she had a performance record, or if you knew her breeding, it might be worth doing.
But, absent those, you’re better off finding a nice weanling and buying it.
Breeding is not inexpensive. This isn’t an affordable way to get the high quality baby you want. It will cost you just as much as the quality baby, and you have no guarantees after spending your money that you’ll even have a healthy foal. It’s unlikely that you’ll get the perfect blend of traits that you’re imagining.
And realistically, if you are excited about breeding, you can probably find a nice mare of known pedigree who is maybe a bit older very affordably.
[QUOTE=hoosierjumper;7814539]
I have thought about it, however I am tried of redoing peoples mistakes. Therefore if I were to buy a non ridden 2/3 year old and more than likely it would cost me an arm and a leg.[/QUOTE]
making the assumption that breeding your 12 yr old (probable) maiden mare isn’t also going to cost you and arm and a leg with zero guarantee of producing a healthy live foal is a poor decision. The first mare I had that I wanted to breed cost me several thousand in vet bills and ultimately died in a freak pasture accident at 7 months in foal. If cost is a concern go find either an in utero foal to buy or look for yearlings and 2 yr olds. You know exactly what you are getting, have the opportunity to raise it the way you want and are guaranteed to (atleast initially) have a healthy horse on the ground.
[QUOTE=hoosierjumper;7814539]
… if I were to buy a non ridden 2/3 year old and more than likely it would cost me an arm and a leg.[/QUOTE]
Real world: breeding is going to cost you and arm and a leg. Go buy something standing there that you can pick what you want. 75% of the risk would already be past you. Arlosmine said it right. Breeding an F1 cross you have no idea what is in her genetic past, esp if she’s an arab quarter type cross. Breeding is an EXPENSIVE and time consuming gamble. Gambling does not go well when you try to get there on ‘wishing’ for sheer luck. It can happen but you would be starting out with the odds stacked hugely against you. Can you afford to lose that much time and money and be stuck with something unsaleable that you produce?
Also consider the extra costs if you are boarding out trying to do this, I’m assuming that you don’t have foaling facilities that you own outright.
[QUOTE=PeteyPie;7814599]
It sounds like you have already made up your mind.[/QUOTE]
If you read previous post above, you can see my mind is not made up. I came to this thread wanting opinions based on the fact in my area I have been told to breed her by multiple people.
But thanks to everyone who put in their input. I think arlosime gave me the best information to make an informed decision on whether or not breeding my mare is a possibility or not.
Some 40 horses just went through a local auction to be sold for $1.51 per pound. Here are some of their pics. Pretty much most of them were sound, had fairly correct conFORmation (not conFIRmation) and were “sweet.”
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.300281103494106&type=1
If you want another horse, go get one of these (at an auction near you). They don’t have papers either.
Some of these horse were plucked out of the auction by caring folks looking for a good horse. The rest get to go from Hermiston OR to MEXICO to be slaughtered in the worst way possible (you know, since we have no slaughter plants in the US)…
Why would you even think about breeding your mare?
Breeding without knowing the lineage would be a crapshoot no matter how nice the mare is. If she is a Quarab, you don’t know which QH lines or Arab lines are back there or what combination of traits might come forward. Adding in a sire of a third breed/lineage throws predictability out the window, IME. Most good F2 crosses reinforce aspects of the initial F1 cross to try to fix type. You don’t have access to sufficient info about the F1 cross to select a suitable sire for the F2 cross.
In the current market, it would be less expensive to buy a 1-2 year old (or in utero or weanling) with aptitude for your preferred sport than to breed anyway. Putting a foal on the ground can easily cost $5-$10K with at least a few K per year to raise (more if you have to board out), and you have a higher risk of not getting a suitable match for your needs.
Thanks for asking the question and good luck in your quest for your next partner.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7814887]
Some 40 horses just went through a local auction to be sold for $1.51 per pound. Here are some of their pics. Pretty much most of them were sound, had fairly correct conFORmation (not conFIRmation) and were “sweet.”[/QUOTE]
Damn–that’s a pricy per pound sell price. Horses to kill are usually sold at 30-50 CENTS, at least in CO (where I am familiar with the pricing.)
