To by existing farm or land and build from scratch?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Here it is definitely cheaper to buy existing! Land with eligibility next to me is selling for about $15,000/acre. I bought a house built in 1978 that needed some work, and have remodeled (hardwood floors, all new trim, doors, lighting, appliances, etc.). We do need to replace windows and siding shortly, and I plan to add on to the single stall garage and include indoor/outdoor dog runs. But I won’t be CLOSE to the cost of building a new 2,500 sq foot house with 3 car garage. Plus I got to remodel it how I wanted.

Huge bonus is my property taxes are MUCH cheaper than they would be on new construction. I also have an amazing, mature shelter belt. We don’t feel north or west wind (and we are in a windy area).

We had to do all the horse stuff on our own dime. Which is fine with me, because I’m pretty picky about fencing, etc. and I was able to run the water line and electric right up to where I wanted it–no heated hoses needed, etc. My chores take only a few minutes each day because I set my place up for that.

Existing barns here are iconic red two story cattle barns that would cost a fortune to re-roof and have low ceilings. Very few actual nice horse properties for sale.

Every building I put up I will put up with the hobby buyer in mind. So my barn (and so far I’m fine with just a big run in) would have removable stalls, etc. Hobby farms for people who like to tinker and have toys are very popular. Putting in an indoor would be strictly an expense I would not plan to recoup and would probably hurt my resale some. If you want an indoor you are way ahead if you can buy an existing around here. It almost makes sense to board for a few months if you are talking only a couple horses in training.

[kashmere]

See… you guys all just need to come to Eastern Canada I wont be in the position to buy a horsey property for a good few years, but I am CONSTANTLY window shopping and day dreaming. There’s one right now up for less than $400k with 230 acres (30 fenced pasture), 24 stalls, indoor arena, outdoor ring, established wooded trails. 5 bedroom 3 bathroom house with a section that could be used a separate rental unit for income.

Oh, and it’s within an hour’s commute of our capital city.

So… someone come buy it and let me live in the rental unit?

[msj]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;8388632]
.

Barns and outbuildings don’t appraise well. You might spend $200k building your dream barn, but when you go to sell the place, the appraiser might give you $50k of value towards it.[/QUOTE]

I ran into this 25 yrs ago when I built a 4 stall barn and 60’ X 120’ indoor, did all post and rail fencing of 4 pastures and put an addition on the house to enlarge the master bedroom and add a mud room below it. Back then I paid over $150K.

When the new assessment came out the following year, they upped my assessment by $30K. While that was, and still is, a wonderful savings on my county and school taxes (New York state is known as the land of taxes), when I go to sell, I fully expect buyers to say “Gee, you’re only assessed at $XX and you’re asking $XXX.”

[Tiffani_B]

[QUOTE=msj;8389784]
I ran into this 25 yrs ago when I built a 4 stall barn and 60’ X 120’ indoor, did all post and rail fencing of 4 pastures and put an addition on the house to enlarge the master bedroom and add a mud room below it. Back then I paid over $150K.

When the new assessment came out the following year, they upped my assessment by $30K. While that was, and still is, a wonderful savings on my county and school taxes (New York state is known as the land of taxes), when I go to sell, I fully expect buyers to say “Gee, you’re only assessed at $XX and you’re asking $XXX.”[/QUOTE]

We recently looked at a BEAUTIFUL horse property. Brand new barns - not even 5 years old - with 12 stalls, 60x120 heated indoor arena, gorgeous RAMM fencing, automatic waterers, the works on 7 acres. House was TINY and old. 2 bedrooms, one bath, 900 square feet, no basement, small rooms… They were asking nearly $300k for the place. It wouldn’t even appraise for half that. There’s no way anyone would be able to get a loan with 20% down.

But I’m sure the sellers felt fully justified in their pricing. They were probably still paying on the construction loans!

[msj]

Tiffany, Check out what it would cost to build the barns, indoor and fencing and you’ll find it would probably more than what they are asking. Basically the house is thrown in free.

One place I looked at had a tiny little house and before I put in an offer, I had a contractor out to give me a good estimate of what it would be to enlarge the place, probably doubling the size of the house and it still wouldn’t be a very large home. The only reason I even considered it was that a friend owned next door and it would have been easy to put a gate in the fence to come over and use her indoor.

I know a lot of the properties I’ve seen for sale around here without indoors are going for over 300K. One just down the street from me is asking almost 400K. It’s actually a nice home, about 3000 sq ft, 2 barns, one had a large heated area where they did dog training. It’s been on the market since spring. I don’t see any signs of it moving right away.

[Alpha_Mare]

If your location of ‘WaWa territory’ is SE PA my experience is that buying and rebuilding is the way to go.

Even if you end up completely replacing house & barn, you may be able to go about it such that the replacement is a ‘repair’ if you do it in phases. a ‘repair’ is maybe a building permit, (depending on what it is, for a barn might not even need that). AND if you ‘repair’ a 4 bedroom house that exists to a nicer 4 bedroom house, your taxes do not change. If you add on, or build new, you get new taxes.

Building new is a more lengthy permitting process. If you buy raw land and want to build a house AND a barn you will likely disturb more than an acre of land. In that case you will be required to follow the ‘Land Development’ process. That is six figures of engineering, submissions to zoning, and approvals.

in my experience also the building new is more expensive than the renovating (even though the renovating is not cheap). After the recession a lot of contractors got out of the business - in this area those that are left are scheduled to the hilt and full price for the work.

[Tiffani_B]

[QUOTE=msj;8390019]
Tiffany, Check out what it would cost to build the barns, indoor and fencing and you’ll find it would probably more than what they are asking. Basically the house is thrown in free. [/QUOTE]

I know, that’s exactly my point. Building a place is almost foolish when you can buy for so much cheaper. That place we looked at has been steadily coming down in price and it’ll probably sell when it’s in the low 200s, which is what the house and land plus the “assessed” value of the buildings are worth. It’s a shame that horse properties don’t sell for what it costs to build them.

[msj]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;8390179]
It’s a shame that horse properties don’t sell for what it costs to build them.[/QUOTE]

That’s a gross understatement. I know when I go to sell my place even though I probably won’t get even 50% of what I have in it, I will have had a lot of wonderful years here. When you get down to it, that’s really all that matters.

[Zu_Zu]

This ! what msj wrote !

This ! what msj wrote !

[QUOTE=msj;8390246]
That’s a gross understatement. I know when I go to sell my place even though I probably won’t get even 50% of what I have in it, I will have had a lot of wonderful years here. When you get down to it, that’s really all that matters. :)[/QUOTE]

[Zu_Zu]

Existing !

Existing !

[Tiffani_B]

[QUOTE=msj;8390246]
That’s a gross understatement. I know when I go to sell my place even though I probably won’t get even 50% of what I have in it, I will have had a lot of wonderful years here. When you get down to it, that’s really all that matters. :)[/QUOTE]

So true!!!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=msj;8390246]
That’s a gross understatement. I know when I go to sell my place even though I probably won’t get even 50% of what I have in it, I will have had a lot of wonderful years here. When you get down to it, that’s really all that matters. :)[/QUOTE]

Just think that, if we had not gone the horse route, we would have spent that money over years maybe on going on vacations, some fancy ones.
While we would have had a terrific time, as you say, that does count for something, we would not live that terrific time like we can spending that money on living with horses.

Still, there is a point where we have to say enough is enough to how much we spend on horses, each one a different limit to that.

When considering buying land to live in that will include horse facilities, it is always cheaper to buy already built, if nothing else, because building prices keep increasing so much more than inflation, your money doesn’t go as far today.

[js]

Agree, it is far cheaper to buy already existing, cheaper and far less hassle and stress. The only time I would suggest building is if you had unlimited funds, no need for financing, were young and would not be moving until you were old. Or if you had unlimited funds, didn’t need financing liked the stress and didn’t mind it not being worth what you invested in it.

I see many farms for sell with all the perks for the horse owner that can bought for much, much less then the cost to build it yourself. The trick is to find them in the area you want to live.

[Tony]

If you are looking at building a large commercial property then it is cheaper to buy already built, but not necessarily the case if you are building a smaller farm for yourself depending on your location. You can always find cheap already built properties that need work and are not that nice and maybe not in the greatest of locations . But if you want something nice in a nice location the cost to build verse buy something is not much different and you get just what you want with no repairs needed . I priced properties in Aiken before purchasing a cleared lot . For me to get the type of property I wanted in a location that I like , I would have paid more for the already built property then buying land and building everything new, but this is for a smaller property , 7 acres building a 36x48 barn . Properties already built in the areas I liked were priced from $590K-$700K . Cost of my lot in same location as the 590-700k homes/farms (and much higher) was $60K, house built cost with well and septic , land improvement $290K (custom 2000 sq ft home), barn cost for nice barn $85K - $120K, fencing $25K , plus reseeding already cleared seeded land, extra well for barn , irrigation, generator, etc… and I am still priced less then the cost of buying already built, and you are getting exactly what you want when you build yourself verse settling for someone else’s ideas and needed repairs.

[NancyM]

We built from scratch. Not inexpensive, but there were no other options. The quality of construction in this area is so poor, on what was available to consider, that it simply wasn’t an option.

IMO, buy quality land, quality water. In an area that you wish to live. Build what you need, where you want it, don’t get saddled with someone else’s decrepid disaster, which can be impossible to really recover from. If the land you find has usable buildings on it, bonus for you. If it doesn’t, build.

[DHCarrotfeeder]

I echo what the others have said:
Look for viable properties now. You will get the most bang/buck by buying one with nice barn, nice outbuildings, nice fencing, good land, and a house that’s not so nice. This is because property values and transactions are so skewed toward the value of a house. Of course if you sell, the same is true, but to the reverse effect.

Do some research, and if horses are on it now, scrutinize it. Not all soils can handle horse traffic well, not all pastures are free of noxious weeds, not all fencing is remotely appropriate for horses, and not all layouts function worth a darn.

If nothing is available in your area (on the market or not), then you will need to build. And the ideal lot is very important. And having bucketloads of money to fulfill a coffee-cup sized need helps too.

[winter]

I agree with Nancy and with others. If you build you will never get the money back that you put in, especially if you put up an arena. The pool of buyers is just too small and that building is only a liability for a non horse person. So if you can find one that isn’t a total dump you will come out ahead. However, if you have to spend a bunch cleaning up the mess of the old owner, than can be more expensive than starting from scratch.
I think the best option is to find a house that has services that you can upgrade then build your horse set up while you are already living there.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=NancyM;8391018]

IMO, buy quality land, quality water. In an area that you wish to live. Build what you need, where you want it, don’t get saddled with someone else’s decrepid disaster, which can be impossible to really recover from. If the land you find has usable buildings on it, bonus for you. If it doesn’t, build.[/QUOTE]

Our goal is to buy land and build a home and have room for my horses (barn, arena, pastures). I’m a realtor and my Dad is a general contractor (who has already offered to build a home for my SO and I when we’re ready and have the $$$). Since I’m a realtor, I see whats for sale and how much. Here in CA, prices are inflated. Having my Dad as a contractor, we can build for cheaper than current market values ($1mill for a NICE house with second home on 5 acre ranchette). I always go to properties or into homes and think “I would have done this differently”. Ideally, if we found something with a tear down that would be great. But some homes (we have a lot of stucco homes in CA) are just hard to remodel or add on too. Sometimes it is easier to start from scratch.

I can’t wait to build our own custom home and make our ranchette just how I want!

[Finzean]

We are in the midst of a huge building project on family land that has been in my husband’s family for over 200 years. While there are a few outbuildings, we had to tear down an old house (asbestos present so we had to get the certified haz mat suited crew to do it); there was a well but it had to have a new pump, get chlorinated, etc.; the septic system was a no-go and the new one isn’t the inexpensive traditional; all the fencing had to be taken up and we are in the process of replacing it; putting in correctly done ring & court (the guy was just out & I’m waiting on the estimate); grading costs; permitting…and we haven’t even broken ground on the house yet. We’ve got plans out with 3 builders and only one has submitted estimates as of yesterday. We are using some salvage materials (old mantles, heart of pine flooring, etc.) from the old house so the build isn’t going to be just spec. It’s truly a labor of love to reclaim the old home-place…otherwise we wouldn’t be doing it. For what we’re spending on the house alone, we could buy a nice little farmette in So. Pines/Aberdeen. The only reason we are building is because of our ties to this amazing piece of land.

I’m excited to have fencing how I want it, ring with great footing, trails, dream house, and what’s going to be a super cool renovated/restored century barn…but from a $ stand point, it would have made much more sense to buy existing. Another bonus for us is that the ghosts come with the place… They’re good ghosts, though.

Best wishes to you. If you decide to build from scratch, go ahead and join the local Wine Warehouse Buyers Club…you’re gonna need it.

[DHCarrotfeeder]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;8390179]
It’s a shame that horse properties don’t sell for what it costs to build them.[/QUOTE]

I wish they were worth more (now that I’m putting money into one) but let’s be realistic - how many horse properties do you see for sale that have exactly the outbuildings that work for you, pastures and fencing, rings and training facilities, all laid out the right way?

Since so few buyers are a tight match with a property on their sale, this dilutes the value of those outbuildings and facilities.