Top Riders Petition for Right to Wear Top Hats in Competition

[Jealoushe]

@skydy

I can’t imagine that the top hat petition was written because the riders wanted to distinguish themselves from lower level riders.

Dressage is a pretty small world. Everyone interested in it knows who’s who.

When Dressage is on the world stage (Olympics) with maybe a few members of the non-horsey public watching, the riders are by default Olympic Dressage riders so there’s really nothing to prove there.

Surely it must be a tradition thing. Change is difficult.

It’s not surprising that the FEI, for whatever reason, didn’t consider the petition.

There were a lot of riders commenting and sharing this that stated in fact- the top hat is earned and is a sign of achievement that they didn’t want to lose. It’s a fact, this is part of the reason behind the petition. Sadly.

[BWP]

@ladyj79

No but I love this horse as well!

The one I’m talking about the horse was in an indoor stadium type setting, in a dressage ring I thing, with a tarp that theoretically covered the entire dressage ring, with a motorcycle, a chainsaw, fire or fire works, etc.

It was definitely not one someone did at home :lol:

Anna Blomgren and Donna Summer?

https://youtu.be/pq0nwZ978_A

[ladyj79]

@BWP

Anna Blomgren and Donna Summer?

https://youtu.be/pq0nwZ978_A

Yeeeeeeeessssss

Apparently there was a part two also

https://www.horsenation.com/2016/01/06/the-bomb-proofest-dressage-horse-in-the-history-of-ever-the-sequel/

[BatCoach]

@mmeqcenter

What’s funny to me is this is also a thing with golf.
No 1400-lb loony-tunes animals involved.
Just “rational” people.

But they want complete silence while hitting the ball.
I’ve always felt it’s more of an “elitist” thing with these country-club sports that are still widely viewed as pretty snobby by the general public, not really something that has anything significant to do with the horses.

The golf thing always cracked me up. We expect basketball, soccer, baseball, football players to preform under intense distractions (thundersticks, shouting, sign waving, vuvuzellas, etc etc) but god forbid you speak at a normal volume or sneeze while some out of shape mid 60 year old is in his backswing. Same with tennis. I agree, I think it goes back to these now main-stream sports being birthed from the elite gentry.

[alicen]

Well, If Blomgren doesn’t think she needs a helmet …

[BigMama1]

@YankeeDuchess

Having leather reins permits you to half halt, steer, or stop a bolt or a buck. Wearing a helmet doesn’t help you control the horse in anyway.

If a top rider is riding a well trained horse with leather reins and all the standard tack, a helmet is useful safety gear in the eventuality the rider gets bucked off. But the helmet does nothing to prevent the buck.

For myself, I always wear a helmet. I’m just not scandalized by these top riders petitioning to go helmetless in very rarefied circumstances. Obviously the riders still need the normal tack to cue snd control the horse.

When I rode a hot horse at the lower levels, I wished I could have ridden in a double bridle, because I thought it gave me better ability to stop a bolt. That is, I felt safer in a double.

Should the double bridle be permitted at all levels for safety reasons (assuming the rider is already wearing a helmet)?

A double bridle is only helpful in the hands of someone skilled enough to use it, and harmful used by those or don’t. A helmet is helpful for every ride and harmful to none.

And let’s be honest - if a 1500 lb animal is really determined to bolt or head off an a bucking spree, no but or reins can truly stop it. Rider control is an illusion that horses kindly allow us to have.

The training itself is what’s supposed to prevent the accident; the helmet is because accidents happen, despite all the training in the world. The idea that riding without a helmet tests / confirms the horse’s submission is ridiculous. The horses doesn’t know and doesn’t care if the rider is wearing a helmet or a ski mask.

[BigMama1]

@YankeeDuchess

My point was that since it’s a competition, any flapping tarps, helicopters, or whoops from the crowd should be challenges that all competitors face, or don’t face.

In my very mild example, a flapping red tablecloth on the judge’s table spooked my horse, I circled around and continued, and got a 2 point deduction for being off course. The other competitors did not get the tablecloth flap.

I’m not complaining of whining. Stuff happens and that’s part of the sport.

I’m just saying that to the extent possible all competitors should face the same conditions, so if a helicopter lands 30 feet outside the arena for competitor A, testing the horse’s composure, competitor B should face the same circumstances.

I assumed the “no loud talking” was intended not because horses should not be expected to perform with some degree of noise, but because if you are trying to standardize the noise level out of fairness, standardizing it at approximately zero is the simplest.

Loud talking from the audience is extremely distracting to the judge and the scribe, who need to hear each other but need to speak softly to avoid being overheard by spectators and especially the rider.

[Jealoushe]

Wonder if she had a helmet on?

Pan Am Games Rider Vera Protzen Dies After Riding Accident

[SillyHorse]

@Jealoushe

Wonder if she had a helmet on?

Pan Am Games Rider Vera Protzen Dies After Riding Accident

Judging from her photos and videos, I would guess not.

[Jealoushe]

@SillyHorse

Judging from her photos and videos, I would guess not.

How awful, she was only 45. The timing is something else too of this happening now.

Wake up top hat/no helmet lovers. You are NOT invincible.

[YankeeDuchess]

@BigMama1

A double bridle is only helpful in the hands of someone skilled enough to use it, and harmful used by those or don’t. A helmet is helpful for every ride and harmful to none.

And let’s be honest - if a 1500 lb animal is really determined to bolt or head off an a bucking spree, no but or reins can truly stop it. Rider control is an illusion that horses kindly allow us to have.

The training itself is what’s supposed to prevent the accident; the helmet is because accidents happen, despite all the training in the world. The idea that riding without a helmet tests / confirms the horse’s submission is ridiculous. The horses doesn’t know and doesn’t care if the rider is wearing a helmet or a ski mask.

I agree that riding without a helmet is NOT useful to confirm the horse’s training or submissiveness. I don’t think that is the motivation of the riders who signed the petition.

When you say a double bridle is “only helpful” in skilled hands, that depends on what you mean by “helpful”. In terms of riding the horse well in a non-bolting situation, I agree that the double is only useful if used by a skilled rider.

However, I have found that the double bridle is more effective as an emergency brake during a bolt. Using the double bridle as an emergency brake is not ideal, but neither is sitting astride a bolting horse ideal.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Jealoushe

Wonder if she had a helmet on?

Pan Am Games Rider Vera Protzen Dies After Riding Accident

Back before seat belts were required to be worn by law, newspaper articles would state whether or not someone fatally injured in a car accident had been wearing a seat belt. I think that would be good for articles on rider fatalities. “So and so suffered a fatal injury when her horse fell; she was not wearing a helmet.”

[Jealoushe]

@YankeeDuchess

Back before seat belts were required to be worn by law, newspaper articles would state whether or not someone fatally injured in a car accident had been wearing a seat belt. I think that would be good for articles on rider fatalities. “So and so suffered a fatal injury when her horse fell; she was not wearing a helmet.”

That would be good. There are people arguing on Facebook over whether the question about her wearing one is appropriate:(

[jvanrens]

@ladyj79

No but I love this horse as well!

The one I’m talking about the horse was in an indoor stadium type setting, in a dressage ring I thing, with a tarp that theoretically covered the entire dressage ring, with a motorcycle, a chainsaw, fire or fire works, etc.

It was definitely not one someone did at home :lol:

Saw that on Facebook this morning actually. Very impressive. Of course I can’t for the life of me remember who shared it…

[jvanrens]

@BigMama1

Loud talking from the audience is extremely distracting to the judge and the scribe, who need to hear each other but need to speak softly to avoid being overheard by spectators and especially the rider.

And yet all the reining, working cowhorse etc judges all seem to manage communicating with their scribes just fine? Besides that, who is going to hear them over the noise? 😉

[atl_hunter]

@jvanrens

And yet all the reining, working cowhorse etc judges all seem to manage communicating with their scribes just fine? Besides that, who is going to hear them over the noise? 😉

Well, in reining, cowhorse and even western dressage you are allowed to use voice commands. In dressage, the silence is absolutely necessary as verbal cues are verboten and the judge needs the area around the ring to be quiet enough to hear if any were used.

[BigMama1]

@Jealoushe

Wonder if she had a helmet on?

Pan Am Games Rider Vera Protzen Dies After Riding Accident

Oh no, how awful.

[OverandOnward]

@jvanrens

And yet all the reining, working cowhorse etc judges all seem to manage communicating with their scribes just fine? Besides that, who is going to hear them over the noise? 😉

Where are the judges/scribes sitting for reining & working cowhorse? I don’t actually know.

“who is going to hear them over the noise” - what? Who is “them”? What noise? Didn’t follow your point.

[SillyHorse]

@OverandOnward

Where are the judges/scribes sitting for reining & working cowhorse? I don’t actually know.

“who is going to hear them over the noise” - what? Who is “them”? What noise? Didn’t follow your point.

BigMama1 made the argument that the judge and the scribe need to hear each other but need to speak softly to avoid being overheard by spectators and especially the rider. I assume that’s what jvanrens was responding to.

[Gamma]

@atl_hunter

Well, in reining, cowhorse and even western dressage you are allowed to use voice commands. In dressage, the silence is absolutely necessary as verbal cues are verboten and the judge needs the area around the ring to be quiet enough to hear if any were used.

This has always struck me as very circular. You’re not allowed to use voice because on a battlefield your horse might not hear you, but we have to have silence so that if you use voice the judge can be sure to hear you.

Why not just allow noise and judge it as any of the other aides? If you want to murmur “easy” when you go past the flower pot, that’s different than if you’re screaming “whooooa” on your way past X. And if your competitors want to sit in the stands and holler “can-TER de-PART” as you go past A…you have some incentive to make sure your horse isn’t blindly following voice cues.