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[fivestrideline]

@Night_Flight

I find dressage to be very useful for spooky horses. It doesn’t mean that you have to make your hunter dressage-y, but it can really help to give you the tools needed to ride through it and prevent the spook from happening.

I do too - good flatwork can do wonders. If nothing else it creates trust for the horse that the rider IS paying attention and not just kinda perching there.

I do find it ironic though because every hunter I’ve ridden, personally, seems far less spooky than the straight dressage horses. Especially on the flat. Probably has to do with dressage breeding (big movers and hot horses) versus the exposure to group lessons and flat classes that your average (bred for being quiet) hunter gets. But still. Dressage is supposed to equal focus and relaxation but competition dressage doesn’t always seem to create it!

[LilahEquestrian]

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[LilahEquestrian]

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[fivestrideline]

@LilahEquestrian

she spooks just as much at home as she does at shows, though. she hates random objects or things that look unfamiliar to her. i take her off property a lot, mostly a few times a month and i will go to other barns to jump courses.

Ah okay. I’d be looking at the diet (specifically magnesium, as a deficiency can make them spooky), ulcers, and take her off any MSM if she’s on it. See how much you can dial back the NSC/grain if she gets any and make sure she’s got enough forage.

Second, I’m a DIYer myself but this may be one of those times you need more regular help. People harp on The Program here, but sometimes really committing to a trainer’s system and putting the time in can make a huge difference. Those programs win because they know how to make it work. Even putting the horse on training board for a month or two if possible might get you over this hump.

You may be answering this question as I’m typing since others have asked but how is she with your trainer in the irons?

[LilahEquestrian]

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[LilahEquestrian]

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[fivestrideline]

@fivestrideline

Even putting the horse on training board for a month or two if possible might get you over this hump.

I am planning on doing this next month, and my trainer lives 2 hrs away so she would mainly be riding her until I could go up on weekends, I’ll update how it goes!
[/quote]

Good plan! Take notes on the whole experience - what works, what doesn’t. If she really turns a corner, take notes on what is different between home and the trainer’s - besides the pro rides.

I’m curious, since she’s not super young, what’s her background? What was she doing before? I’m wondering if y’all are both green to the level you’re aiming, or if this is a horse that “should” be more reliable. That will greatly influence the methods and timeline for improvement. If she’s an unknown, that will change things too.

[Annie10]

@Limerick

They are?!

That’s what I said. Since when?

[LilahEquestrian]

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[LilahEquestrian]

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[EmilyM]

@LilahEquestrian

was wondering if there are any products to help with this?

My jumper is like this. Maybe not as dramatic as this sounds. He gets perfect prep gold pellets.I put it in four meals before he shows. So I start a couple days in advance of show days . Also top dress nupafeed mag liquid am and pm for show days. I was able to back off the mag this summer.

I’d say it makes a big difference. But he still spooks. Doesn’t matter as much for jumpers. And he’s much better once he zones in and starts doing his round.

Be mindful these products can cause loose manure.

[RhythmNCruise]

I’m going to second the suggestion of it possibly being ulcers. I hadn’t really had experience with them until my gelding (who I’ve owned since he was a yearling and is now 15) started having uncharacteristic meltdowns over the seemingly silliest things. My once reliably sensible horse was suddenly a total basket case when confronted with things he used to hardly flick an ear at. And he simply could NOT be redirected. He acted legitimately terrified for his life because a tractor was running somewhere on the property.

Finally…FINALLY…people on COTH convinced me to just try giving him a couple of tubes of Ulcergard to see if that changed anything. And boy did it! Like a switch had been flipped and just like that, I had my sensible horse back. I wound up doing a whole course of Ulcergard (which was $$$$), and he’s been good ever since. I make sure he eats a very low-carb, forage-based diet (now with a little alfalfa added), and he’s outside 24/7. Lots of hay/pasture. NO grain of any kind. NO soy in any form. He actually used to be on additonal magnesium before I treated the ulcers and I thought it helped, but now he’s not on any additional mag and is totally chill. I HAVE added additional thiamine (B1) in the past few months and he seems even MORE chill since adding that, so I keep feeding it.

I also stopped giving him daily Equioxx, which I believe contributed greatly to his ulcers.

Seriously. Ulcers. They definitely make them spooky. And your mare has changed hands several times, which can definitely trigger ulcers.

[Peggy]

@Annie10

@Limerick

They are?!

That’s what I said. Since when?

Pretty much forever AFAIK. One of those urban horse myths.

[Peggy]

@RhythmNCruise

Seriously. Ulcers. They definitely make them spooky.

Pain other than ulcers can also make them more reactive.

[endlessclimb]

Zipping my flame suit.

Assuming it’s not pain/ulcers, I think this is a rare circumstance where draws or a German martingale can be helpful. You can make not leering at stuff non negotiable without needing to escalate aids. Could also be done with sidereins on the lunge.

That said, it doesn’t sound like this horse is going to be a good hunter candidate without a lot of messing around.

BTW you can show dressage in your jump stuff. No one cares.

[Ponyplusaninch]

Yeah if pain is out, and the horse is difficult to keep on the aids consistently unless a large man is on it, I’ll second that draw reins can be really effective helping drive the message home. You still need to be able to ride, but boy does that extra leverage help a very large animal realize what’s non-negotiable (I like that phrase).

[Peggy]

@endlessclimb

BTW you can show dressage in your jump stuff. No one cares.

I showed through first level in a very flat jump saddle and my HJ gear. I showed through third level in Vogel field boots and a hard hat with harness (this was before harnesses were required in HJ), though did have a dressage saddle by then. I got a USDF Bronze medal in this getup riding a TB. I then got real dressage boots, showed through fourth and the horse went lame.

[CBoylen]

They updated the rulebook within the last few years (idk when, exactly) to explicitly state that runnings were allowed. Previously it said “ Martingales of any type are prohibited in Under Saddle, hack and tie-breaking classes. Standing martingales are allowed for all over fence classes. All other martingales may be considered unconventional."
Now it says:
HU105 Tack
1. Snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are required.
a. Judges may penalize, but may not eliminate, a horse or pony that competes in a snaffle, pelham, or full
bridle that is unconventional. Unconventional snaffles, pelhams, or full bridles include, but are not limited
to, hunter gags, kimberwickes, etc.
b. Judges must eliminate a horse or pony that competes in illegal bits or nosebands. Illegal bits include, but
are not limited to, three rings, gags (other than the hunter gag), et cetera… Illegal nosebands include, but
are not limited to, drop, flash and figure eight nosebands.
2. Curbs: When using a curb with any leverage bit, it must be constructed of loose links, joints, and/or lie smooth
against the jaw of the horse and be free of twists, sharp objects or anything inhumane. A curb may be wrapped or inserted into a cover for the comfort of the horse. A curb may not be used in conjunction with wire, metal, rawhide, metal “keepers”, or any other substance except for attachment of curb to the bit.
3. Horses must return to the ring for conformation or soundness wearing a snaffle, pelham or full bridle with a cavesson noseband.
4. Martingales of any type are prohibited in under saddle, hack and tie-breaking classes. Standing and running martingales used in the conventional manner are allowed for all over fences classes. All other martingales are considered illegal. A judge must eliminate a horse or pony that competes in a martingale other than a standing or running martingale used in the conventional manner.
a. Cable or metal tie downs are prohibited for use on horses and ponies

[LilahEquestrian]

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[Ponyplusaninch]

That is the most legit amateur owner story lol. Oh horses.