Nobody was bashing you Zu Zu. I was trying to understand.
I agree that cement is not the best; I thought you were saying the mats were the issue but you are saying it was the hardness of the concrete that was ultimately the issue. I agree with you there.
Iâm confused. I would still cement the wash stall and for sure the tack room floor.
If you donât cement the aisle now, plan ahead with your heights. I have seen a horse slip on brushed cement (winterâicy hooves) as eventually it wears smooth (long time though).
ZuZu, that is a horrible story. Iâm sorry. Itâs hard to say if it is one of those freak things or not, but it is still a valid caution to consider either way. I mean I know a horse that fractured itâs pelvis rushing into itâs stall to eat grain. But then I know people who let their horses run into their stalls for supper and have done it that way for decades. sigh I do know I donât like the dust from dirt aisles Iâve boarded at. Everything was filthy all the time. BUT I donât think they did any fancy stone dustâI think it was regular dirt.
What about cement along the stall doorways and mats built in down the center aisle. Then you get the mats and you have the erosion protection in the high traffic path? You could do the cement strips now and add matts as $ permits.
The barn was built knowing weâd do cement in aisle, tack and wash stall. The aisleâs stonedust is down several inches. The stalls were always planned for stonedust and interlocking mats over top. No cement in the stalls.
If you are going to scream the word (all caps) realize that cement is in concrete so what you are really pissed about is concrete, not the stuff that holds it all together, the cement.
I have found mats, even with the no slip texture, can be slippery. I think a horse falling on packed stone dust or hard dirt floor could just as easily break something.
I had packed stone dust with mats in all the right places in my aisle for years. It worked great, just a hassle to clean. Raking was necessary but too much raking makes the floor uneven. It felt like a lose lose situation.
I think if you are use your stone dust until you have the money to do your concrete you will be fine.
We found the biggest expense of getting the concrete floor added was the delivery fee. It will probably cost you more in the long run to do part now and part later. Worth asking about to do your calculations.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7782807]
The stall floors, maybe?[/QUOTE]
Sorry - donât have any. I wasnât that excited about rubber matted floors, with bedding covering them.:winkgrin:
OP; I think youâll be able to negotiate a better price for a bigger job, and things never get cheaper.
[QUOTE=Zu Zu;7782803]
Once more to clarify ``
I was simply adding my opinion on stonedust or cement aisles having lived with both types at "homeâ and at trainers for decades
My choice would be NO ! cement
and I gave an example of a horrific incident ⊠the loss of one of my beloved show horses ! which was because of CEMENT ! shattered bones ! she did not 'bounce when she hit the CEMENT aisle (which was matted with corregated mats)
my opinion !
Bashing me and my dead horse are inappropriate ~ IMHO !!![/QUOTE]
I have had two of my horses go down on concrete (no mats) and get nothing more than scrapes. Sorry for your loss Zu Zu but no one was doing any bashing, they were in fact just commenting.
I have now corrected my mis-use of cement and concrete ~ I apologize for my stupidity
I have now corrected my posts in this thread âŠmy mis-use of the terms cement and concrete âŠ
I apologize I really was quite ignorant in that
:eek:
cement is just one of the three parts of concrete
:yes:
Concrete = cement + water + aggregates
To all of you ânasty bulliesâ ~ thanks for the education ```` have a wonderful afternoon !
:lol::winkgrin:
the true magic of Coth !
Rubber over anything can have problems. They can slip (if not correctly anchored). They can trap moisture (like urine) and cause odor problems. If the rubber is over wood it can rot the underlying wood. Iâm not a fan of rubber mats in most instances.
Our wash rack and vet/farrier area are rough concrete. Weâve got mats in the farrier area at his request (and to help his back, mostly, Iâm thinking; but Iâm quite OK with that; I donât see any need to inflict gratuitous pain on a farrier 
).
Our barn aisle is asphalt. Itâs been a good surface which is reasonably easy to clean, does not hold odors, and was much less expensive than concrete.
Someone usually brings up the alleged âfire hazardâ with asphalt. In fact asphalt can burn. The âboilingâ point is over 600F and the auto-ignition temp is over 900F.
If you mange to set asphalt in your barn on fire youâve already likely got a full scale conflagration going and the damage from the asphalt will likely be indistinguishable from the general fire damage.
If you get lucky and have someone in your area doing a driveway or the like you might be able to get the contractor to do your area as an âadd on.â This would help your neighbor and give you a better price.
G.
[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7782819]
What about cement along the stall doorways and mats built in down the center aisle. Then you get the mats and you have the erosion protection in the high traffic path? You could do the cement strips now and add matts as $ permits.[/QUOTE]
This, cement containment borders if necessary and mats/paver sheets/tiles. May not save you money but I think it would be the safest and the best lasting installation vs. mats over concrete.
The barn was built knowing weâd do cement in aisle, tack and wash stall. The aisleâs stonedust is down several inches. The stalls were always planned for stonedust and interlocking mats over top. No cement in the stalls.
At my old farm I had the stone dust aisle with mats.
At my new farm, I have a concrete (cement, whatever seriously we knew what she meant) aisle. I have mats in stalls and aisle (Iâve never had an incident).
However, now I have had both, Iâd prefer the stone dust. When I move back east, it is pavers or stone dust.
Personally I would do it now, concrete the entire aisle. My reasoning being, that even with mats overtop, your stone dust is going to take a lot of abuse over the winter. Then, if you chose to concrete in the spring, you will have a lot of remediation work to do to prep for concrete, costing more money at that time. Second, you are already having to concrete the tack room this fall, so why not do all of the concrete work while the truck is there. Saves time and money in the long run, even if itâs super tight to find the money right now.
I have never been in a barn that did not have a finished surface in the aisle (concrete or brick pavers or rubber pavers). Never, so itâs really interesting to hear so many people on here who have that system. Iâve seen horses go down on concrete, but never with catastrophic results. I think a stone dust, dirt or other surface in the aisle would be so difficult to clean and maintain flat and rut free.
I do not like mats on top of anything, Iâve seen more horses trip on the edge of a mat that slip on bare concrete. I wanted rubber pavers in ours so we inset the concrete down the centre and laid the pavers there. If I were you I would take this approach with your mats. Have them inset the concrete so that you can place a mat under your cross ties with no edges to trip on.
I was at work when my aisle was concrete-d. So I donât know if the big concrete truck came or it was a little one? I had blind faith in my contractor⊠it was amazing.
But my only concern with waiting would be is it going to make a mess come spring to get a truck out there to do it?
I have concrete in my aisle, tack room and storage bay. I put mats down the middle so when Iâm grooming or tacking up my horses arenât on the concrete. Other than the mats shifting whenever I drive my tractor in, Iâve been very happy with the set up. I boarded at a place with dirt aisles and they were awful. Uneven, muddy when rain blew in, or if you had to drag a hose in to fill a bucket.
I power wash my barn a couple of times a year, and if I had a dirt aisle it would turn into a muddy mess, not a good as new, shiny clean barn.
Just food for thought - It was a real hassle having them come and pour concrete for the aisle after I had moved into my barn. I had my system of feeding and chores and having to develop a new system while I waited for the aisle to dry enough was frustrating.
Just out of curiosity, have you priced the concrete if you do it yourself? its REALLY not hard at all, anyone minor handy can do it, and that drastically cuts down on the cost. For me (since I just priced this out) the concrete for my 10x41â aisle is going to be about 350, and my wash stalls (24x10) only another 200.
Thats with me framing it myself and pouring it myself.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;7783333]
Rubber over anything can have problems. They can slip (if not correctly anchored). They can trap moisture (like urine) and cause odor problems. If the rubber is over wood it can rot the underlying wood. Iâm not a fan of rubber mats in most instances.
Our wash rack and vet/farrier area are rough concrete. Weâve got mats in the farrier area at his request (and to help his back, mostly, Iâm thinking; but Iâm quite OK with that; I donât see any need to inflict gratuitous pain on a farrier ).
Our barn aisle is asphalt. Itâs been a good surface which is reasonably easy to clean, does not hold odors, and was much less expensive than concrete.
Someone usually brings up the alleged âfire hazardâ with asphalt. In fact asphalt can burn. The âboilingâ point is over 600F and the auto-ignition temp is over 900F.
If you mange to set asphalt in your barn on fire youâve already likely got a full scale conflagration going and the damage from the asphalt will likely be indistinguishable from the general fire damage.
If you get lucky and have someone in your area doing a driveway or the like you might be able to get the contractor to do your area as an âadd on.â This would help your neighbor and give you a better price.
G.[/QUOTE]
In cold weather, asphalt is far, far more dangerous than roughened concrete. As it gets old it gets less so, but Iâd never put it in on purpose. Iâd also choose roughened concrete over mats where horses have to potentially walk in from outside with snowballs in their feet.
I like a roughened concrete floor with mats at x-tie points for standing on, and the aisle wide enough that you can easily skirt the mats when youâre bringing in icy footed beasts.
Stonedust is the safest, but also the highest maintenance and isnât necessarily the healthiest in terms of keeping vermin out, ground water out, cleaning up floods, etc.
Zu Zu - the barn Iâm currently has a policy of keeping all doors from barn to arena fully closed (tops as well as bottoms) if a horse is left in the arena unattended even for a moment. I wish your trainerâs barn had had the same 
I try not to collect any more T-shits in my drawer the absolutely necessary. They get expensive. I spent 20 years living and working in Lexington KY and visiting a multitude of farms. Mom and pop to palaces. Arguably the horse capital of the world in terms horse population, farms, and a high concentration of professionals who live and breath horses and the business of. So when I am thinking of making changes/improvements and or going with something that I donât personally have experience with and or is something new I call one of my friends that either owns and or runs a farm. They have paid for a lot of T-shirts. For going on 100 years they have been figuring out whatâs the best way to go about things based on a given budget and what is best for the horses. A lot of the most valuable in the world. That being said.
If I had the money number 1 with a bullet, rubber âbrickâ pavers. They have stood the test of time now and look great. # 2, asphalt not only is it the best bang for the buck it is what I saw in the majority of barns I have been in. That includes stalls. Though there is a âKY mixâ for stalls that was developed by the late Joe Taylor farm manager of many years for the world famous Gainesway Farm. He details this in his book. A good read with a lot of information regardless of the breed. Asphalt is âsofterâ then concrete/cement. Yes I know the technical difference but it is a common used term for the same no need for semantics. For those who think differently listen to the sound of your car tires going from a concrete section transitioning to an asphalt section.
Yes, asphalt does get âharder, slickerâ in cold winters. But concrete is always hard and IMO a bit slippery. Both will âsweatâ and be a bit slick under certain environmental conditions. IMO and experience in my neck of the woods concrete is far more prone. Asphalt not nearly as much. The âsweat effectâ of concrete can be eliminated if the time and expense of installing over foam board insulations is used. A âthermal bridgeâ.
As to installation concrete cost about twice as much at asphalt in most cases. The sub base needs/should be well prepared/engineered in advance. In just about all cases concrete should have reinforcing wire in place especially if the base was not âpreppedâ for the use of. Expansion joints need to be figured into the equation also.
Asphalt or concrete should have a âproperâ base. But if being laid as an âafter thoughtâ Asphalt IMO and experience is the ONLY way to go. Far less labor intensive and will âconformâ to the existing base and handle settling far better then concrete that is not well engineered for the existing base. Concrete will crack and the cracks can and will get bigger. Possible maintenance hassles and will have the âpatchedâ look that stands out like a sore thumb. In my case like a big nose. I would rather have a bit of a âwavyâ visual then a patched look. Patched asphalt doesnât stand out as much. Plus when patched and or looks âwarnâ a coating of driveway sealer (cheap) cleans things up nicely. And adds a bit of âgripâ to the surface depending on how may coats are applied.
I think stone dust makes for an excellent surface when done right. The draw backs have already been covered. Everything comes down to budget.
As always to each their own on this and many things âhorseâ.
If youâre building in an area that has large chunks of winter weather below freezing, asphalt truly, truly, truly, honest to god, is NOT a good choice. It is FAR and above more slippery than roughened concrete under the same conditions.
Iâve worked on both with both shod and unshod horses. Asphalt is an accident waiting to happen in northern climates.
[QUOTE=gumtree;7785638]
As to installation concrete cost about twice as much at asphalt in most cases.[/QUOTE]
This is very area dependent and can not be said as a blanket statement.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
